The next item of business is a statement by Ivan McKee on responding to reinforced autoclaved aerated concrete in the public sector across Scotland. The minister will take questions at the end of his statement, so there should be no interventions or interruptions.
15:56
I am pleased to provide Parliament with an update on the work that has been going on across the public sector to identify and manage reinforced autoclaved aerated concrete, or RAAC, as it is better known.
Where RAAC has been used in Scotland, it has typically been for roofs in different types of buildings, with only limited use in walls and floors. RAAC started to be used in the 1950s and continued to be used through to the 1980s. There is currently no manufacturing in Scotland or in the rest of the United Kingdom, and it is no longer used here. However, it is still manufactured and used in other countries, including Germany, South Korea and Mexico.
In response to emerging concerns across the sector, a working group was formed in the summer of 2023. The group pulled together people from across Scotland with an interest in RAAC, including professional advisers and academics, to ensure that knowledge, understanding and best practice could be shared. RAAC is not just a Scottish issue, of course; it is also present across England and Wales, with engagement taking place between the Scottish Government and other Governments on the topic.
RAAC came to public prominence in late August 2023, following the UK Government Department for Education’s decision to change its approach to risk with regard to RAAC in schools in England. Work had already been undertaken in Scotland by that time, particularly in the health, justice and school sectors.
The Institution of Structural Engineers notes that properly maintained RAAC should perform no differently to any other comparable building material. It may remain serviceable and does not need to be removed simply because it is RAAC. The cross-sector working group has heard from experts and professional bodies who have refuted claims such as those about the limited 30-year lifespan of RAAC. If RAAC has been properly manufactured, specified, installed and maintained, it can continue to fulfil its function in the long term. If RAAC is not properly maintained, it can deteriorate and will need to be managed appropriately. That may include on-going monitoring, remediation or replacement. The Scottish Government advises building owners to use the guidance produced by the Institution of Structural Engineers for assessment.
We continue to urge building owners with RAAC to seek appropriate professional advice and follow the guidance. My thanks go to everyone who has engaged with us to allow an understanding of RAAC across the public sector in Scotland. It is only with that engagement that we have been able to develop the complete picture.
A total of 40 schools were found to have RAAC, and that number is now down to 29. A number of those schools will be replaced through the £2 billion learning estate investment programme. Schools that still have RAAC are taking appropriate measures to manage it and have longer-term plans to address it.
Our national health service estate has also been affected. Members will no doubt be aware of the work to remove RAAC at Knoll hospital in the Borders. Fifty other NHS properties were found to have RAAC. Some of those buildings, such as Denburn health centre in Aberdeen, were due to be vacated before RAAC was discovered. NHS Scotland Assure is working with NHS boards to further assess the condition of RAAC to allow a national programme to be developed. Patient and staff safety has not been compromised because of RAAC. Where areas have had to be closed, services have been provided from elsewhere. Nothing is more important than the safety of patients and staff in our NHS.
There has undoubtedly been a considerable focus on housing. In Scotland, local authorities, social landlords and the Scottish Housing Regulator have undertaken a comprehensive assessment of their stock. Although the vast majority of social landlords do not have RAAC, there are about 3,000 homes, around 1,000 of which are privately owned, that do have it. I am pleased with the progress that social landlords are making to assess and remediate RAAC, where required, and to manage properties in the longer term.
The housing sub-group on RAAC brings together Scottish Government officials, social landlords and other professionals to share best practice and to test approaches to RAAC management. My colleague the Minister for Housing, and his officials have engaged closely with local authorities as they have addressed the issue of RAAC in the various council areas. They have also met the Association of British Insurers and have engaged with UK Finance and with residents groups.
I encourage lenders and insurers to treat homeowners fairly and ask that they consider the condition of any RAAC, rather than just responding to the fact that there is RAAC in a property. Mortgage lenders and insurers must pay heed to the ISE guidance, just as building owners do.
Earlier this month, the Minister for Housing met with residents in Aberdeen who are affected by RAAC to hear their concerns directly. He also heard some of the alternative solutions they have been proposing to councils. A visit to meet similarly affected residents in Dundee is also being arranged.
The Scottish Government remains committed to supporting local authorities with flexibilities within their existing budgets. They are responsible for supporting housing in their areas, for example through the scheme of assistance in place to help homeowners. It is for each local authority to decide the support that it will make available, based on its resources and local priorities.
Having said that, each area is different and what one local authority is doing to address RAAC may not be appropriate for another, not only because of the number of properties affected but because of the condition of the RAAC. In North Lanarkshire for example, due to the low number of affected properties, the local authority is making grants to help homeowners cover their costs. Meanwhile, Dundee and Edinburgh are carrying out pilots to provide a permanent solution to concerns about RAAC without removing it and incurring significant costs. We are ready to work with any local authority to develop solutions to address residents’ concerns.
To assist landlords and owners, I am also pleased to confirm that the Institution of Structural Engineers, with support from the Scottish Government, is currently developing guidance that is specific to RAAC in domestic properties. That guidance will include potential ways to effectively support any RAAC in situ or, where that is not possible, advice on how it can safely be removed. We expect that guidance to be published in the summer. The Royal Institution of Chartered Surveyors will also publish a consumer guide shortly.
The approaches being taken reflect what I said earlier. RAAC is not a fundamentally defective material and, if it is in good condition, it can be managed and remain in situ for many years. The Scottish Government will not be imposing a deadline for the removal of RAAC from public buildings. Rather, it is for those with RAAC to manage their estates as they consider necessary, taking their priorities into account.
Since RAAC first came to prominence almost two years ago, the Scottish Government has repeatedly called on the UK Government to make a dedicated RAAC remediation fund available, but so far that has not been forthcoming. We have written again, ahead of the UK Government spending review, to repeat that call.
Taking learning from the issue of RAAC into account, we are establishing a cross-sector building safety forum with external stakeholders to work to identify potential future safety issues. The forum, which is made up of representatives from across the public sector, met for the first time last week and will report to the ministerial working group on building and fire safety.
I thank all those who have been involved in identifying, managing and addressing concerns caused by RAAC. Although there are, undoubtedly, still issues to address, we have a far greater understanding of RAAC across the public sector in Scotland. Where RAAC has been found, building managers will have taken appropriate steps to ensure the safety of buildings and users.
Finally, anyone who has a building with RAAC should seek professional advice and follow the appropriate guidance.
The minister will now take questions on the issues raised in his statement. I intend to allow around 20 minutes for those questions, after which we will move on to the next item of business. Members who wish to put a question should press their request-to-speak buttons.
I thank the minister for advance sight of his statement.
Despite knowing for years that RAAC presents a serious safety risk, the Scottish National Party has failed to take action to address the issue. While councils face mounting repair bills to fix RAAC in public buildings, local government budgets have been cut year on year.
At the same time as politicians prioritise the debate on the use of toilets at Holyrood, thousands of homeowners who have been forced out of their homes are having to make mortgage payments on properties that they cannot access, while the value of those properties plummets.
In Aberdeen, SNP councillors refused to commit funding for RAAC repairs, which means that affected homeowners will have to shell out thousands for a new roof or see their home demolished. It is a complete injustice that, through no fault of their own, homeowners in RAAC-affected properties find themselves living in defective homes with little to no resale value. Does the minister think that that is an acceptable situation for homeowners to be in? Why will the SNP not step in, at either local or national level, to support people who are affected by the scandal?
First, given the situation in which we find ourselves—and, more importantly, that in which homeowners find themselves—it is not helpful for the member to scaremonger to that extent. As I indicated in my statement—and the member should know this if she is familiar with the issue—RAAC is not necessarily a problem if it is properly maintained; it depends on the findings of the risk assessments that are undertaken. Professional advice from the Institution of Structural Engineers and others points to that important fact.
On the funding aspects, the Government has given local authorities a record settlement in this year’s budget. We continue to engage with affected local authorities to understand how we can best work with them to provide support as necessary. It is also worth reflecting that, although the RAAC issue affects properties across the UK, the Conservative Government formerly in power at Westminster refused to put in place a financial support scheme for affected homeowners.
I urge the member to tone down her language and focus on the facts when addressing the issue.
Across Scotland, lives have been turned upside down by problems with RAAC in homes. It is not scaremongering to say that some people are stuck in unsaleable and unsafe properties, and others have been forced to move out, leaving their possessions behind. Expressing concern is not good enough. People are desperate for action to secure their homes. Given that responsibility for housing is fully devolved, will the Scottish Government mark the scale of the crisis and respond to the call for a remediation scheme, as the Royal Incorporation of Architects in Scotland recommended?
We recognise the impact of the current situation on homeowners, which is why we continue to engage with local authorities.
As I indicated earlier, the Minister for Housing has met residents, and will continue to do so, to understand and address the challenges. That is why we are working with interested parties in the cross-sector working group on the issue. It is why we are engaging with the Institution of Structural Engineers and the RICS on developing guidance to support homeowners. It is also why we are engaging with the Association of British Insurers and others on issues concerning insurance and mortgage payments, to support owners and ensure that such issues are addressed. We will continue to do so, because we recognise the challenges that they face.
It is also worth noting that the current UK Government—a Labour Government—to which my Scottish Government colleagues have written on a number of occasions, has refused to engage on the matter of putting in place a remediation scheme, in recognition of the fact that this is a UK-wide problem.
The previous UK Government committed to “spend what it takes” to deal with remediating RAAC. However, the Conservatives did not deliver a remediation fund, and, so far, Labour has failed to deliver the financial support that is needed. [Interruption.] I know that some Conservatives might not want to hear that, but they know that it is the truth. Does the minister share my concern that the UK Government’s inaction has slowed down the process of addressing the problems with RAAC that have been experienced across the UK?
Yes. It is a case of a promise not being honoured by the previous UK Government or, indeed, the current one. That is why Scottish ministers have written to and engaged with the UK Government on numerous occasions since the RAAC issue came to prominence. It is important to note that RAAC is a UK-wide issue, so we would expect the UK Government to support a UK-wide approach. It is frustrating that, having created the circumstances in which we find ourselves, the UK Government is resisting our calls to address the challenges and make things right.
In September last year, the Scottish Government published a report on RAAC in the public sector, which said that, in the NHS estate, it was likely that the number of buildings containing RAAC had fluctuated from 395 initially to 560. Today, we were told that 50 buildings definitely have it. Is that number likely to go up? Can the minister explain why he did not mention the Police Scotland estate, the courts estate, the Scottish Water estate, colleges or prisons in his statement?
I identified in my statement that a number of public sector buildings are involved. I did not list them all, but, if Graham Simpson is interested in the details, I am happy to share that information.
Work continues across the sectors that Graham Simpson identified—including health, education, justice and the wider public sector—to identify affected buildings and to do technical risk assessments to understand the scope and the condition of the RAAC. As I said, just because a building has RAAC in it does not mean that action necessarily needs to be taken. Once that process, which is proceeding at pace, is completed, it is for the specific public body to take a perspective on what needs to be done to address the issue. In some cases, that has involved demolition of buildings and their replacement. In others, it has involved temporary closure. In others, the result of the risk assessment is such that no action needs to be taken. That depends on the specifics of the building, and it is the responsibility of the public body to address the issue. As I said in my statement, the safety of public sector workers and the users of the buildings is of paramount concern.
Can the minister update the Parliament on engagement between the Scottish Government and local authorities regarding steps that are being taken to remove RAAC in local authority buildings?
We will continue to engage with local authorities, including Aberdeen City Council, in that regard. I indicated in my statement that the work and approach that local authorities undertake will depend on local circumstances. Scottish Government ministers will continue to engage with local authorities and support them where we can to address that hugely significant issue.
It is disappointing that the Scottish Government does not recognise its own role and responsibility in this regard, as housing is a devolved policy area.
I understand that the home report system is under review at the moment. Is there scope for that review to include the condition of RAAC and information on RAAC?
The review of the home report system will be evidence led, so, if there is evidence that suggests that it would be beneficial to include RAAC, it will be considered as part of the review. I am happy to engage with Claire Baker separately on that specific issue. If anyone else has a professional or other interest in what should be included in the home report review, my ministerial colleagues would be happy to engage, as appropriate, on the specifics.
I am grateful to the Minister for Housing for his engagement with me on the RAAC situation that is impacting about 500 council and privately owned houses in my constituency. I am also grateful for his recent engagement with community representatives to discuss the situation that is impacting private home owners and to hear at first hand about the devastating impact that the issue has had on the community.
Although the focus of today’s statement is the public sector, the Torry case highlights the complexities that arise in responding to RAAC when former council housing stock has been sold and is now in private ownership. The Scottish Government has previously indicated that fiscal flexibility is an option that is available to councils, including Aberdeen City Council, to finance their responses to RAAC. Can the minister advise whether that is still the case?
When local authorities come to us with solutions that require flexibility in existing funding settlements, we are more than willing to consider them. I know that Aberdeen City Council has sent a proposal for using the housing infrastructure fund. Housing officials are currently appraising that proposal and will reply shortly, once we have given it full consideration.
More than 1,400 homes in the north-east—many of which are council owned—are affected by RAAC. However, councils still do not have accurate numbers of all affected properties because, despite requests from residents, the surveys that are required to confirm the presence of RAAC are not always being undertaken. What assurances can the minister give to residents that councils will undertake those required surveys in a systematic way, and how can he ensure that communities are included in discussions about financially viable and family and community-appropriate solutions?
Councils have a responsibility to assess such properties, and we are working with them to ensure that that happens as rapidly as possible. Clearly, there are a number of properties to be addressed, but that work is on-going and the information is becoming available.
We are content to engage with local authorities and, importantly, with affected residents. As I already indicated, my colleague the Minister for Housing met affected residents to discuss the issue, and we will continue to do that to ensure that their perspectives are properly heard.
Members will recall that I was the first in the chamber to raise the problem with RAAC, some two years ago at First Minister’s question time. Almost every month since that occasion, I have raised the issue. I always ask that the Government recognises its responsibility, to local authorities in particular, to make whole those buildings, such as Blackhall library in my constituency and many schools around the country, so that local authorities are not left scrabbling around for cash.
Does the cabinet secretary’s statement suggest that there is no fund coming? If so, what does he have to say to the local authorities that have been looking to his Government for money?
On the issue of funding, as I have indicated in answer to previous questions and in my statement, we will continue to engage with local authorities to explore the financial flexibilities that are available to allow them to support homeowners and others appropriately.
I have indicated, too, that different local authorities are impacted to a different extent and are handling their circumstances in different ways. It is important to take that into account.
We continue to engage with local authorities. I have cited the case of Aberdeen, where we are having detailed discussions about the potential use of the housing infrastructure fund and the fiscal flexibilities around that.
I again call on the UK Government to put in place a UK-wide fund to provide support across the UK. The previous UK Government committed to do so, and the current UK Government should follow through on that.
Will the minister provide an update on the work of the RAAC cross-sector working group and say how it can support the sharing of learning and best practice in the response by public bodies to RAAC?
The cross-sector working group on RAAC was established just prior to the UK Government’s decision to close schools because of the condition of RAAC. The group brings together public bodies that are affected by RAAC, along with professional advisers and academics. It has created a network where relevant current information can be shared. For example, the Institution of Structural Engineers noted that there is no evidence to support the oft-quoted 30-year lifespan of RAAC.
More recently, the focus has been on housing, with the housing sub-group meeting regularly. Most recently, the group heard a presentation on potential solutions to issues with RAAC that do not require a full roof replacement. Lessons learned from the RAAC working group have been taken forward with the establishment of the cross-sector building safety forum, whose remit is to consider current and emerging building safety issues. If anyone is interested, minutes of all meetings of cross-sector working groups, including sub-groups, are on the Scottish Government website.
Despite the minister’s amnesia, £95 million in Barnett consequentials for RAAC remediation was given to the Government, but it was absorbed into the Scottish Government’s general revenue budget rather than being earmarked specifically for addressing the RAAC crisis. That implies that, now, remedial works can proceed only at a pace that the Government can afford rather than based on urgency. Given the safety concerns and the substantial costs faced by local authorities, what steps will the minister take to ensure that that dedicated funding is restored? In other words, where has the RAAC money gone?
I stand to be corrected, but, as far as I and my colleagues on the front bench are aware, no specific RAAC fund has come to the Scottish Government from the UK Government. We will double check what the member has said to verify that and will respond accordingly. To the best of our recollection, there is no specific fund for RAAC from the UK Government.
Indeed, had there been such a fund, it would have been very easy for the UK Government—either the previous Conservative Government or the current Labour Government—to respond to the letters that we wrote to it and make that point. [Interruption.]
Let us hear the minister.
That is, if that had been the case, the UK Government would not have been slow to come back and point that out to us. The member is perhaps a bit confused in that regard.
I reiterate our call that the UK Government should, as was promised previously, step up to the plate and implement a funding solution to support the remediation of RAAC across the UK.
On that point, much has been said today about the UK national remediation fund. The minister will be aware that the UK RAAC campaign group has been calling for a national remediation fund to be provided by the UK Government. What assessment has the minister made of the campaign group’s calls?
As I have indicated, we are very supportive of calls for a UK-wide remediation fund. We are aware of the calls that have been made by the UK RAAC campaign group. A petition on the issue is also being considered by the Citizen Participation and Public Petitions Committee, and the Minister for Housing is fully engaged with the committee as it considers that petition.
We have every sympathy for homeowners who are affected by RAAC. As I said in my statement, we have written several times to the UK Government calling for a RAAC fund to be established to provide support to those who are affected. I call on the UK Government to make such a fund available as part of the upcoming UK spending review.
In his statement today, the minister has called for insurers and mortgage lenders “to treat home owners fairly”. Will he also instruct the SNP administration and Aberdeen City Council to treat homeowners fairly by improving the derisory offers that have been made to homeowners in Torry?
The minister can answer only on questions for which he has devolved responsibility. If he wishes to address the question in that regard, he may do so.
I will reiterate what I have said. The Scottish Government continues to engage with Aberdeen City Council and councils across the country to discuss the financial flexibilities that can be afforded through funds that are available to support homeowners. We will continue to do that.
That concludes the ministerial statement.
On a point of order, Presiding Officer. I seek to put this on the record and to find out from you how the record can be corrected. A freedom of information release last year revealed that
“The Scottish Government received £97.1 million in Barnett consequentials following the UK Government’s announcement in March 2020 to remediate”
non-aluminium composite material—non-ACM—cladding systems
“on residential buildings ... where leaseholders would incur the costs or where the costs were a threat to the financial stability of the social housing provider.”
I mistook that cladding system for RAAC, so I would like to correct the record.
Thank you, Mr Hoy, for that clarification. It is not a point of order, but it is on the record.
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