Citizen Participation and Public Petitions Committee

Meeting date: Wednesday, June 14, 2023

Official Report 780KB pdf

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New Petitions

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Thrombosis (PE2016)

Item 2 is the consideration of new petitions. As always, for those who might be tuning in, because we are considering a petition for the first time, we invite the Parliament’s independent research body, the Scottish Parliament information centre—SPICe—to offer its reflections on the petition, and we also invite the Scottish Government to give its initial thoughts on the petition. That does not in any way determine the outcome of the petition, but it does mean that we proceed on an informed basis.

The first new petition is PE2016, which was lodged by Gordon McPherson. It calls on the Scottish Parliament to urge the Scottish Government to raise awareness of the risk factors, signs and symptoms of thrombosis. Jackie Baillie has stayed with us for this petition as well, having an interest in it.

According to NHS Inform, deep vein thrombosis—DVT, as I think that many now know it—is

“a blood clot that develops within a deep vein in the body, usually in the leg. Blood clots that develop in a vein are also known as venous thrombosis. DVT usually occurs in a deep leg vein, a larger vein that runs through the muscles of the calf and the thigh. It can also occur in the pelvis or abdomen. It can cause pain and swelling in the leg and may lead to complications such as pulmonary embolism.”

The Scottish Government’s response to the petition explains that it carefully prioritises the issues to which funding and staff resource are allocated, with the close input of clinicians. Given that it has already provided updated material to clinicians and revised the guidance available to the general public on NHS Inform on thrombosis, the Scottish Government does not consider that this is the right time for a major public awareness campaign. It does, however, commit to running a “package of activity” on the Scottish Government’s health social media account on thrombosis awareness later this year.

The petitioner’s further submission responds to the Scottish Government’s cited statistics on thrombosis, highlighting that the higher numbers provided in his petition were taken from a ministerial answer to a question lodged by Jackie Baillie MSP. Therefore, before I ask members whether they wish to come in, especially in the light of the Scottish Government’s quite clear direction, is there anything that Jackie Baillie would like to say to the committee?

Thank you very much, convener. I am very grateful for the opportunity to speak.

Gordon McPherson is, in fact, a world ambassador for world thrombosis day. He has been campaigning on this issue for 20 years, and I feel that I have known him for each and every one of those years. He is persistent, and rightly so, because he is asking the Scottish Government to raise greater awareness of deaths in Scotland that can be attributed to thrombosis, as you have outlined, and to show the risk factors, signs and symptoms to look for in order to reduce mortality and morbidity.

The petitioner lost his daughter, Katie, who was an occupational therapist, in 2003, when doctors at two hospitals failed to spot a blood clot in her leg and she was sent home with painkillers. Mr McPherson feels that if medical staff had been more aware of the risk factors, plus the signs and symptoms, Katie may not have died from untreated thrombosis.

The Scottish Government has not run an awareness campaign on the condition since 2011, and Mr McPherson feels that it is not treating the matter as seriously as is required. As a result of a lack of awareness on the part of both the public and medical professionals, he is concerned that there will be increased cases of thrombosis. He is keen that the Government does more than it is already doing. He is not looking for something that is hugely expensive—he has suggested practical stuff. For example, he has talked about blood clot alert cards, such as are available in Ireland. They inform patients of the risks and signs of clots and of the need to get medical attention fast in the event of a clot. That strikes me as something that the Scottish Government could do effectively without too much cost. He has raised issues such as that with the Scottish Government over the past 20 years and it has been particularly unhelpful in trying to progress the matter.

12:45  

What makes the issue more significant—and is I think the reason why he has lodged a new petition—is that new research by the BMJ shows that, after a Covid-19 infection, there is an increased risk of DVT for up to 3 months, pulmonary embolism for up to 6 months and a bleeding event for up to 2 months after infection. The circumstances around thrombosis have changed since the Government’s last awareness campaign in 2011 when Covid-19 was not the health risk that it is now. In that light, I would be most grateful if the committee could consider whether it would be wise for the Government to take another look at public and medical professional awareness of thrombosis so that more lives such as Katie’s are not lost.

Thank you. Your evidence was helpful and compelling. Do colleagues have any suggestions?

I am grateful to Jackie Baillie for shedding light on the new information that there are linkages between Covid-19 and thrombosis, as well as other linkages, which would suggest that there is a need for further consideration of what preventative interventions may be appropriate in identifying cases where there is a risk predisposition. It would be well worth putting to that to the minister.

I am new to this and I do not know the petitioner, but having read through the papers, I picked up that the loss of his daughter was a crushing blow. He has been through the mill. One death is one too many and I bear that in mind when I refer to numbers. However, there is a clear conflict between the figures that he has provided, which indicate that there are 11,400 deaths per annum in Scotland, whereas the figures in the Scottish Government’s submission indicate that there were 380 deaths from blood clots in 2021 and a total of 1,925 where blood clots were mentioned on the death certificate—380 as an underlying cause and 1,545 as a contributory cause. In turn, the petitioner replied saying that:

“It is not the first time the Scottish Government has quoted one set of figures when there are other figures which reflect the case I put forward”.

I would be interested to learn more about that and to tease out why the figures that he refers to are roughly 10 times greater than the figures that the Scottish Government uses.

Whether or not there have been 1,000 or 10,000 deaths, it is such a serious thing; the consequences can be fatal in serious cases. Whether there is a public information campaign or other specific actions that are taken on the basis of proper clinical considerations about preventative action, we need more information on the matter from the Scottish Government. I do not have a view on whether we want to do that by letter or in an evidence session.

If Jackie Baillie does not mind, I will ask her for clarification. The petitioner feels that his figures came from a ministerial response received to one of your questions. Have you been able to understand or establish why there might be a discrepancy between the two sets of figures?

No, but he is accurate in saying that the first set of figures that he quotes were provided to me in answer to a parliamentary question, I think. I am happy to provide that information to the committee if you do not already have sight of it.

It would be useful to write to the Scottish Government to seek an explanation for the discrepancy in the figures. We should also draw attention to the report that has suggested that there could be a link with Covid. We could refer back to the petitioner’s long-standing association with the issue, the fact that it is all about prevention and that circumstances have changed. In the light of all of that, it could be that it is necessary to do a little more than had previously been suggested. Are colleagues content with that?

Members indicated agreement.

I wonder whether we should write to the Scottish Government. It will be running a health awareness messaging campaign on social media later this year, and given the fact that Covid has been brought into the matter, perhaps it can be put into that social media campaign.

Okay—we will keep the petition open on that basis.

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Swimming Pools (Financial Relief) (PE2018)

Our final petition is PE2018, which was lodged by Helen Plank on behalf of Scottish Swimming. The petition calls on the Scottish Parliament to urge the Scottish Government to help keep our swimming pools and leisure centres open by providing financial investment for pools. The petitioner notes the important role that swimming can play in supporting the physical and mental wellbeing of people of all ages and highlights that, pre-Covid, swimming was one of Scotland’s highest-participation sports.

As noted in the papers, a report in November 2022 by Community Leisure UK found that 95 per cent of Scotland’s leisure facilities are at risk of closure, with swimming pools facing an increased risk of closure, due to the cost of the energy that is required to operate such facilities; I believe that that has been the subject of recent parliamentary questions. Members might also be aware that increasing financial pressures have recently led to the closure of three public swimming pools in West Lothian, as well as Bucksburn swimming pool in Aberdeen.

In response to the petition, the Scottish Government states that it has repeatedly called on the UK Government to use all the powers at its disposal to tackle the cost of living crisis and to provide appropriate energy bill relief to leisure facilities. The Scottish Government response goes on to acknowledge the financial package that has been provided by the UK Government to support swimming pools in England, noting that, in deciding how to allocate the resulting consequentials, it will consider what support can be provided to the sport and leisure sector in Scotland. I think that that too has been raised in the chamber. The Scottish Government also states that it is working with sportscotland to examine the facilities estate in Scotland.

We have also received a submission from the petitioner, which highlights the estimated social value—some £55 million—that swimming contributes to society and notes the role that swimming pools play in helping to keep people active, particularly women, people with disabilities and older people.

Members will also note from our papers that we have received a submission from our colleague Tess White MSP, a former member of the committee. She is unable to join the meeting but wanted to express her support for the petition and to highlight concerns about the closure of Bucksburn swimming pool in her region.

Do members have any comments or suggestions for further action?

This is a very important issue, which, as you have identified, has already been raised a number of times in the Parliament, so it is important that we keep the petition open.

We should write to the Minister for Social Care, Mental Wellbeing and Sport to seek an update on how the Scottish Government intends to allocate the consequentials that result from the UK Government’s funding of swimming pools in England—which has recently been discussed at length in the Parliament—and to seek details on the Scottish Government’s consideration of the support that it will provide to the sport and leisure sector in Scotland.

We should also write to sportscotland to seek further information on the support that it is providing to Scottish Swimming for the delivery of the Scottish swimming facilities project. That information would also help to give us an indication of where we are with the whole process.

Those are the actions that I propose, convener.

I will just add that I wrote to the minister to ask for a meeting about the West Lothian swimming pool closures. At that time, she did not have time for us to meet. I would like to keep the petition open and to ask questions about what the Scottish Government is doing to support swimming pools.

We could ask the Scottish Government specifically to confirm what consequentials have been received. It has given a commitment in the chamber, in response to parliamentary questions, that it is giving thought to the issue and deciding how to allocate the resulting consequentials and what support can be provided to the sport and leisure sector in Scotland. I think that we should ask the Government not just for an update on its deliberations, but when it expects to conclude them. We should also ask that it make clear and public how, if at all, those consequentials are going to be allocated. Given the parliamentary question, I think that we can be quite specific in regard to all that.

I think that we are content to keep the petition open and to proceed on that basis.

Members indicated agreement.

That brings us to the end of the public part of this morning’s meeting.

12:54 Meeting continued in private until 12:59.