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I encourage those who are leaving the chamber and the public gallery to do so as quickly and as quietly as possible.
The next item of business is a members’ business debate on motion S6M-18469, in the name of Emma Roddick, on the Growing2gether programme success. The debate will be concluded without any questions being put.
I invite members who wish to participate in the debate to press their request-to-speak buttons, and I invite Emma Roddick to open the debate.
Motion debated,
That the Parliament congratulates the charity, Growing2Gether, on what it sees as its successful programme aimed at helping young people who face various challenges by pairing young adults with toddlers to mentor; understands that participants and facilitators have reported a significant shift in young people's confidence and gaining of skills, helping to improve wellbeing; acknowledges the reported overall positive and successful work of this charity in partnering with 15 schools in Scotland, including 12 in the Highlands and Islands region; applauds the over 2,000 young people who have been paired with 2,200 toddlers over a seven-year period across the Highlands on their efforts; considers it important to provide opportunities for children and young people who face challenges with poverty, mental health or trauma to develop skills and confidence in themselves, and notes the view that the Scottish Government should consider how it can best support this kind of work moving forward.
12:50
I am unusually nervous today, only because I am so incredibly glad to have the opportunity to speak about Growing2gether and to share it with colleagues, the Government and anyone else who is listening, and tell them why engaging with this organisation, among the thousands of meetings that MSPs have, is one of those that I will always remember clearly. Colleagues will know the meetings that I mean; the ones that we remember because they make us feel something.
Growing2gether works with young people who are experiencing or are at risk of poverty, mental health issues and adverse childhood experiences. It intervenes to support those young people to mentor nursery children and take on leadership roles in their communities, consult with community members and develop youth-led initiatives. Right now, it is working in and around the Moray Firth and across Aberdeen.
When Gavin Morgan of Growing2gether reached out to me last year, I could tell that there was something special about what the nursery programme is doing. Gavin is so passionate. There is no other way to say it. He loves what he does, and he loves seeing the results of his work.
When I told him that we had finally secured a debate spot for the motion, I asked him whether there was anything new that he wanted to share with me since we last spoke—he sent me 10 bullet points, two PDFs and a video.
I will circulate that video to colleagues after the debate. The reason that the programme works is the willingness of the young people who take part. Their reflections are so special. I could stand here and quote them all, but you really need to hear it from them, so I will share just one that sums it up for me. They said:
“I finally feel that I am okay as a person. I thought that everyone else was better than me.”
Many young people who grow up with trauma or poverty are led to believe that they are not special, that there is nothing more for them in life, that they cannot offer anything to the world but anger and that there is really no point in trying. I know that because I have felt it. It takes a lot of internal work to undo that complex belief system, and a lot of effort from kind adults who want to convince you that it is worth giving it a go.
When I was in school, I was paired with a couple of nursery boys to mentor. I remember being really nervous about that. I did not like boys. I grew up in an all-female household, and to me, boys were mean, they hit you and they cared about Glasgow football teams for some reason. However, answering those wee boys’ questions, teaching them about the world of big school and watching them explore everything made me realise what I had learned so far and what I had to give back, and it made me feel more confident and responsible.
That meant that I was already sold on the concept, but I met Gavin online to chat about what he wanted to achieve. He explained that really he only wanted me to tell everybody else about what he was doing.
It was one of those days of back-to-back team meetings, typing up notes and actions for the evening, swapping from my work on rural affairs to healthcare to casework. However, the programme, Gavin and the energy around it stood out, and I had to see it for myself.
I arranged to meet him and some of the young people involved up at Kinmylies primary school. I spoke with a few of the young people, some of whom had left the programme the year before but had taken the opportunity to come to speak to me and be reunited with their mentees. I was taken aback by that because I was expecting to meet the current cohort. It was a beautiful, sunny day, and those teenagers could have been down the pitches, up at the retail park or just lying in bed playing Fortnite, but instead they had come to Charleston academy to make sure that I knew how good the programme was and to see their old nursery partners.
I was told about how one little girl cried and cried on the last day of the programme because she did not want to say goodbye. I could feel the emotion in the room that day as I heard about them reuniting just before I arrived. Another mentor shared that the parents of his mentee had sought him out and thanked him for whatever it was that he did to make their little girl come out of her shell. The programme leaders explained that one of the quieter girls there would have been too nervous to speak to me before she took part in the programme. She smiled and agreed; she said that it had changed everything. Both age groups bloomed from the belief that the programme leaders had in them and from the knowledge that they can build such relationships, learn from one another and be of value to the world.
What really came across as we sat around the table talking and laughing was that the teachers who helped to lead and organise the programme blended together with the young leaders. They had worked together. There was no top-down instruction; it was a partnership, and I could see that the young people carried themselves differently as a result of that.
At the end of my visit, we posed for a photo, as usual. It was a normal MSP visit photo, with everybody standing with their hands clasped and looking polite. One of the young people then pulled out their phone and took a selfie. That is the photo that I used for my social media post about the visit, because that is the one that captured the energy and joy of the day when they explained to me how special it all is. It shows what a difference it makes when young people do something for themselves.
We know that intergenerational work produces results, and we know that young people with adverse childhood experiences need a push, encouragement and opportunities to discover the amazing things about themselves that the world has told them are not there. We know that Growing2gether’s approach works, and it would be a very sensible—and successful—move if the Scottish Government were to seriously consider how it can support, explore and expand Growing2gether’s work.
Gavin Morgan is a busy man. He has been down in Westminster sharing his successes, and he is working with even more schools that want to join up and be part of the programme. However, I am sure that he could find some time in his very busy diary to help out the minister and make sure that Scotland leads the way. If we want to tackle the attainment gap, if we want more young people in positive destinations and if we want them to be genuinely involved in their community and feel a responsibility to it, this is not an opportunity that we can ignore.
I will finish with a question that Gavin shared with me. He said:
“We are continuing to see a positive impact in both our Nursery and Community programmes for children and young people and parents, teachers and young people, ask, why is this not in more schools across Scotland?”
12:57
I thank Emma Roddick for using her members’ business debate slot to bring this issue to the chamber. I feel very passionately about it, as she will know, and I appreciate her doing so.
First, I want to categorically say that we thank Growing2gether for the work that it does to support children to overcome trauma and adversity. The fact that it is working with 15 schools and has paired more than 2,000 young people with more than 2,200 toddlers over the past seven years should be applauded, because that is a monumental amount of work.
We have already heard from Emma Roddick what the Growing2gether programme has done for so many young people. This national initiative in Scotland focuses on improving outcomes for babies and infants who are affected by adversity in their earliest years. As I have stated, anyone who has listened to my speeches over the past four years will know just how important the issue is to me.
I am going to go personal. When I adopted my daughters, I was told about the issues surrounding attachment disorder and the necessity of reaching certain milestones in brain development for on-going cognitive growth and physical health throughout life. It was put to me like this: every milestone met is a brick in the wall of life; if you miss one out, every brick laid on top of that gap is unstable and insecure.
If members will forgive me, I will go back a step from the work that Growing2gether does. When a baby is born, it is amazing just how important every developmental milestone is. Everything that seems minor and insignificant is essential. Something as simple as holding a baby makes a massive difference. A newborn who is not held enough is more likely to have stunted growth, poor weight gain and a weaker immune system. Touch is essential for emotional and physical development. Touch promotes vital brain connections, growth hormones and the ability to make bonds with other people, so a child who grows up without touch in their early years has a significantly harder life than one who grows up with it.
Most newborns are well versed in hearing, because they hear their mother from inside the womb. However, if they are born into an environment in which they are not spoken to, they are more likely to suffer setbacks in language, communication, social and emotional skills and speech delays.
All that makes sense, but I wonder whether members also know that those children are also less likely to be able to form thoughts and that a child who grows up in a home where they are not spoken to softly is more likely to be unable to learn or to retain knowledge than one who grows up being spoken to in that way. So much of the nurturing that happens in early years is essential for a purposeful and productive life.
The reason I mention all of that is that Growing2gether’s programme is rooted in the growing body of evidence that the first 1,000 days of a child’s life are critical to their development and that any delay or inconsistency in decision making during that period can have long-lasting consequences. Those 1,000 days add up to just two years and nine months. Decisions must be made fast because, with every week that goes by, valuable development is lost.
I am speaking about that because Growing2gether’s programme aims to improve early identification of risk for babies and infants, strengthening multi-agency working across health, social work, justice and the children’s hearings system. It aims to reduce delay and drift in decision making, particularly in cases involving care and permanence, to ensure that babies’ lived experiences and their development needs are properly understood and represented. That is timely.
I cannot argue with a single one of those requests, which are timely because, with the Children (Care, Care Experience and Services Planning) (Scotland) Bill going through Parliament, we have an opportunity to advance on those asks. I sincerely ask the minister to ensure that we do that.
I will quote one line from Growing2gether:
“Babies are not simply small children.”
We only have two years to get it right for them.
13:01
I congratulate Emma Roddick on bringing the debate to the chamber. I am absolutely delighted to be able to speak today because this is exactly what members’ business is for—it allows us to shine a light on work that genuinely changes lives but often does not get the attention that it deserves.
When I first read the information about what Growing2gether actually does in pairing young people with toddlers in nurseries, so that those young people can become mentors, I thought that it was a simple idea, but it is really brilliant. The programme is not about giving young people the kind of help that adults sometimes talk about, when we step in to help them fix themselves by telling them what to do, what is wrong with them and why they cannot make progress. Instead, it is about actually handing responsibility to young people, saying that we trust them and letting them be needed. That is a lot: it is massive, but it is actually genius.
I say a proper, “Well done,” to everyone involved in making the programme happen, including the staff of Growing2gether and the facilitators on the ground, as well as the school and nursery staff who make space for the work and keep it going week after week, which I know is not easy when people are already juggling everything that they have to do to look after nursery-age children. I should perhaps declare an interest, because I used to chair a local playgroup, so I have a little bit of insight. Most of all, I say, “Well done,” to the young people who have stepped up and given it a go, and to the wee toddlers who have benefited and are at the heart and core of that work.
The motion talks about young people who are dealing with a lot, such as poverty, mental health challenges and trauma, with everything that comes on top of that, including living with the pressures of modern times. None of us can pretend that we do not see that in our own communities. I see it in my Banffshire and Buchan Coast constituency, where we have loads of young folk who have really good hearts and are good kids but are just carrying a bit too much. They may have had a few years of being told what they are doing wrong most of the time. Adults tend to say that we are preparing young folk for the risks that they might face, but we do that and tell them how they are falling behind, instead of being positive and giving them the opportunity to shine, which is exactly what Growing2gether does. I will certainly take that back to my constituency and talk about it.
I also have a little understanding of mentoring toddlers because I have had six children and know exactly what sort of patience that takes. You have to show up and be kind, and you must be consistent.
That is a lot to learn at a young age, and—believe you me—toddlers will find any loophole that they can. Of course, they are also good fun.
The programme is not just good for the wee ones; it is good for all who are involved. It builds confidence in a true, authentic way—not confidence that is put on in order to mask ourselves or to provide us with a way of showing up in society, but a true, authentic transformation within a person. Gaining that real confidence is revolutionary. It is an issue that is pertinent to everybody in the chamber.
I once again thank Emma Roddick for bringing the issue to Parliament, and I hope that the Scottish Government looks seriously at the programme to see how we can roll it out across the rest of Scotland.
13:05
I thank Emma Roddick for bringing the debate to Parliament. I join colleagues in their praise of the programme and hope that we can see it trialled in Lanarkshire at some point, because I think that it is a really good initiative.
Not to harp back to old-fashioned ideals for the sake of it, but it used to be that giving less-than-well-behaved teenagers their first taste of responsibility would often be the making of them. I think that most of us know someone who that applies to. The trouble is that our public services pathways do not do that. Anything short of a path that goes from high school to university and on to a graduate job is seen as sub-par. That is just wrong. Growing2gether really turns that pyramid on its head. It points a finger at every young person and asks, “What are you going to offer the world? What happens if you are forced to think about the wellbeing of someone who is not you?”
As I mentioned in the chamber last week, we have a problem in our economy, with one in six young people aged between 20 and 24 being out of education, employment or training, so I am pleased to join Emma Roddick in congratulating the Growing2gether programme, and I think that the Scottish Government absolutely should consider how it can do more to expand it in the future.
More than that, the Scottish Government should consider how the entire ethos of the programme can be applied to the education-to-employment pathway. The first question should not be what support someone needs, but what someone can offer their community, economy, family or society. If someone is looking after a toddler, that is tremendous.
We must expand the criteria for what is deemed to be a successful education-to-employment journey. Most importantly, we must fearlessly and unashamedly trust young people with the opportunity to contribute to society. That is what I take away from this debate.
13:08
I thank Ms Roddick for bringing the debate to the chamber and for highlighting the excellent work that is being done in the Growing2gether nursery programme. A lot of what she said resonates with me. I am glad that the programme is helping to eliminate the feeling of not having a place or a purpose, because every child in this country deserves to feel special.
I thank members for their heartfelt contributions in today’s debate. It has been terrific to hear about the unique approach that the programme takes and the clear benefits to young people, as the providers of support rather than the recipients. I convey a heartfelt thanks to everyone involved.
Members have already touched on some of the ways in which Growing2gether has helped to support young people. Those who have been supported through the programme have said that it has led to a surge in their confidence, mental health and respect for others, helping them to find skills and qualities that they did not know that they had. It is heartening to hear that feedback, which shows the growth in self-esteem and resilience that the programme is enabling for our young people.
Programmes such as Growing2gether demonstrate the powerful role that positive, supportive relationships play in shaping children and young people’s behaviour, wellbeing and engagement with learning. By giving young people the opportunity to take on responsibility, build empathy and form nurturing relationships with younger children, that work helps to deliver the social and emotional skills that underpin positive behaviour in school and beyond.
This strengths-based preventative approach aligns closely with our focus on promoting positive relationships, supporting emotional regulation and addressing the underlying causes of disengagement, rather than responding only when behaviour reaches crisis points. It shows how relational, community-based programmes can complement the work of schools, contribute to calmer, more inclusive learning environments and support our young people to be successful learners, confident individuals, responsible citizens and effective contributors. I am really interested in that point, because—as either someone said, or I read—the programme has been very helpful for young people who were quite disengaged with school, by bringing them back in. That is really important. We talk a lot in the chamber about attainment and ensuring that children are able to attend their school, and I have spoken a lot about the virtual school network, but I am interested in understanding more about approaches that can help over and above that.
We are pleased to have provided more than £800,000 to support the nursery programme through our place-based, community-led regeneration funding over a number of years.
There has been some talk about disadvantaged young people and, before I touch on a couple of other points in the debate, it is important to highlight some of the steps that we are taking to provide wider support to children and young people. We are continuing to invest more than £1 billion every year in 1,140 hours of high-quality funded early learning and childcare for all three and four-year-olds and eligible two-year-olds. In last week’s budget, we announced a universal breakfast club offer for primary school children in Scotland, to be delivered by August 2027. We also announced new investment to expand after-school and holiday clubs for primary school children, which will support parents with wraparound care options and provide an important range of activities for children.
I absolutely agree with Ms McCall’s points. Sometimes we talk about extremely emotive subjects in this Parliament, and this is one of them. We want to ensure that our youngest children get the support that they need to reach those developmental milestones and that the families get the support that they need to deliver that. We are taking a number of actions through whole-family support, whole-family wellbeing and all the preventative work that I regularly talk about with Ms McCall and any other member who will listen to me.
On top of that, there are a number of other actions. In December, we published our “Early Years Speech, Language and Communication Action Plan”, which sets out our preventative, strategic approach—to build on existing strengths, address gaps in support, and place families and communities at the heart of that work.
We are also delivering the game-changing Scottish child payment, which is forecast to support the families of around 330,000 children next year. Since the benefit launched, we have paid out more than £3 billion and, of course, we have just expanded it to £40 for children under one.
In relation to the Children (Care, Care Experience and Services Planning) (Scotland) Bill, making provisions to support babies is an absolute priority. There are already provisions for that in the bill, but I am hoping to extend them further at stage 2 and I will meet Ms McCall to discuss some of that very soon.
As I have said, I am very interested in the programme and the points that have been made. I am a big believer in intergenerational work and I believe in it for all age groups. Generally speaking, I think that that work has been done more by pairing younger people with elderly people, so I am interested in it for this age group. To take a slightly personal slant, my two children do not have much access to teens or older children, and I can see how that intergenerational work would benefit even them.
As I said to Ms Roddick earlier in the debate, I would be grateful if she could send me more information on the programme. In looking at the future of the programme, I will certainly take into consideration the points that members have raised.
I will finish by congratulating everyone involved in Growing2gether, which is enabling our children and young people to develop the skills, values and resilience that are needed to build a brighter future. I am sure that Growing2gether will continue to build on the superb work that has been done so far, and I wish the programme every success in the future. Again, I thank Ms Roddick for bringing the debate to the chamber.
That concludes the debate.
13:15
Meeting suspended.
14:00
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