Official Report 1065KB pdf
The next item of business is a debate on motion S6M-17966, in the name of Kate Forbes, on the Scottish Languages Bill at stage 3.
17:21
’S ann tro ghealladh Bile nan Cànan Albannach ùr a thoirt air adhart a thòisich am pròiseas pàrlamaid seo. Chaidh a chuir an cèill gu follaiseach gur e ar n-amas a bhith a’ leantainn nan ceumannan leis an dèigheadh àm ri teachd nas tèarainte a chruthachadh do Ghàidhlig agus Albais. Tha sinn air deagh adhartas a choisinn a dh’ionnsaigh a’ gheallaidh sin.
Tha sinn fìor mhothachail nach e seo eacarsaich a shuathas a-mhàin ri riaghladh nan cànan—tha sinn airson ceumannan a ghabhail a bheir buaidh air cleachdadh nan cànan ann an dachaighean, a bhios gan neartachadh sa choimhearsnachd agus san àite-obrach.
Chaidh am bile seo a dheasbad aig iomadach ìre eadar-dhealaichte. Nam measg, na h-ìrean deasbad coimhearsnachd; co-chomhairle fhoirmeil; leasachadh poileasaidh; agus an sgrùdadh is atharrachadh a rinn a’ Phàrlamaid seo. Tha am bile air a bhith air a neartachadh aig gach ìre air sgàth nan deasbadan seo.
’S e geallaidhean soilleir agus àrd-amasach a bha air cùlaibh a’ bhile seo. Le bhith ag obair às leth Gàidhlig agus Albais tha sinn an-còmhnaidh a’ togail air agus a’ cur ris na gnìomhan a chaidh a chur an sàs le daoine romhainn. Feumar a bhith ag aithneachadh a’ bhile seo agus ceumannan eile mar phàirt riatanach den oidhirp a bhith a’ càradh a’ chroin a dh’fhulaing na cànain ann an linntean nas tràithe. ’S e seo a’ chiad uair a chaidh Albais a chomharrachadh ann an reachdas.
Sa mhìos mu dheireadh tha mi air tadhal air a’ cheathramh sgoil Ghàidhlig a tha san amharc do Ghlaschu agus an sgoil Ghàidhlig a tha a’ sìor fhàs ann an Inbhir Nis. Tha mi air a bhith an sàs ann an còmhraidhean mun thaic a bheir Gàidhlig don eaconamaidh ann an sgìrean cugallach. Chìthear comharran adhartais agus, leis a’ bhile seo, nì sinn cinnteach gun lean an t-adhartas sin.
?Tha sinn air èisteachd. Tha sinn air gabhail ri beachdan bhon choimhearsnachd. Tha deasbadan mun bhile seo air nochdadh thairis air na coinneamhan agam le luchd-ùidhe coimhearsnachd agus le measgachadh de bhuidhnean Gàidhlig agus Albais. Tha sinn air buannachd fhaighinn bho bhith a’ còmhradh ri Buill-Phàrlamaid agus air fàilte a chuir ri molaidhean nam Ball-Pàrlamaid. Rim bheachd-sa, tha bile pàrlamaid againn a tha a' riochdachadh luchd-ùidhe an t-seòmair seo uile gu lèir.
?Tha sinn mothachail de thoraidhean a’ chunntais-shluaigh mu dheireadh. ’S iad seo adhbhar airson dòchais, misneachd agus dùbhlain. Mar às àbhaist, le Gàidhlig agus Albais, tha an t-uamhas obrach romhainn agus tha am bile seo a’ toirt dhuinn an comas agus na dòighean anns an tèid adhartas a bharrachd a choisinn.
Tha cumhaichean ùra sa bhile seo aig a bheil buaidh air àitichean a tha riatanach ri leasachadh na Gàidhlig agus na h-Albais. A thaobh ionnsachadh, chaidh ceumannan a leantainn gus cothrom nas fheàrr a thoirt do dhaoine air foghlam tro mheadhan na Gàidhlig agus gus goireasan foghlaim a leasachadh do dh’Albais san t-seòmar-sgoile.
A thaobh coimhearsnachd, thèid cumhaichean a chur an sàs gus comharrachadh is taic a thoirt do sgìrean aig a bheil ceanglaichean cudromach don Ghàidhlig agus gus taic a thoirt dhaibhsan a tha a’ fuireach is ag obair sna sgìrean seo. Anns an ro-innleachd agus na bun-inbhean a tha am bile a’ cur air adhart bidh sinn a’ mìneachadh nam prìomhachasan againn agus na targaidean air am bi sinn ag amas.
Tha am bile seo a’ toirt a-steach cumhachdan gus sgìrean cànain sònraichte a chomharrachadh. ’S e miann a’ bhile gur e am pròiseas comharrachaidh rud a bheir cumhachd do choimhearsnachdan Gàidhlig agus gum bi sgìrean cànain sònraichte a’ cur taic ri ceumannan practaigeach. Mar eisimpleir, a bhith a’ toirt seachad seirbheisean tro mheadhan na Gàidhlig agus solar nas fheàrr airson foghlam Gàidhlig ris am b’ urrainn ùghdarrasan ionadail dèiligeadh mar phrìomhachas.
An lùib a’ bhile seo tha measgachadh de chumhaichean airson foghlam tro mheadhan na Gàidhlig, cumhaichean gus neartachadh mar a thèid aithris air poileasaidhean cànain, agus feadhainn a chuireas dleastanas air ministearan ro-innleachdan agus bun-inbhean a stèidheachadh. ’S iad seo cumhaichean ùra agus bidh iad ga dhèanamh nas comasaich tuilleadh adhartais a choisinn.
Thig atharrachadh às a’ bhile seo. Tha sinn air freagairt na dùbhlain aig ìre 1. Chaidh barrachd airgead a thasgadh. Tha sinn air sealltainn nach e seo dìreach bile samhlachail. Chuir sinn aithne ri prìomh dhraghan a thaobh foghlam Gàidhlig. Tha sinn air prìomhachas a thoirt do ghnìomhan coimhearsnachd agus air aontachadh gu bheil feum air targaidean àrd-amasach.
Following is the simultaneous interpretation:
This parliamentary process started with a commitment to bring forward a new Scottish Languages Bill.? The clearly stated aim was to take further steps to create a secure future for Gaelic and Scots. We have made good progress with that commitment. We are aware that the bill is not just an administrative exercise; we want the steps that we take to have an impact on language use in homes, and to strengthen its use in the community and the workplace.
The bill has gone through the stages of community discussions, formal consultation, policy development, and scrutiny and amendment by the Parliament.? The bill has been strengthened at every stage by means of those discussions.
The commitments behind the bill were clear and ambitious.? With Gaelic and Scots, we are always building on and adding to what others have done before.? We must view the bill and other steps as an essential part of reversing the neglect of earlier times. This the first time that Scots has been included in legislation.
In the past month, I have visited the planned fourth Gaelic school in Glasgow and the expanding Gaelic school in Inverness, and I have had discussions about where Gaelic can contribute to the economy in fragile areas. Those are signs of progress and, with the bill, we will ensure that progress continues.
We have listened, and we have taken in community views.? Discussions on the bill have featured across my meetings with community interests and with a range of Gaelic and Scots bodies. We have benefited from discussions with MSPs and we have welcomed proposals from MSPs. I believe that we have a bill that represents all interests in the chamber.
We are aware of the most recent census results, which give us hope, optimism and challenge. As ever with Gaelic and Scots, there is much to do, and the bill gives us the means and the levers to make further progress.
There are new provisions in the bill that will affect crucial areas of Gaelic and Scots development. In learning, steps will be taken to improve access to Gaelic-medium education and to improve resources for use in classrooms for Scots in education. In communities, provisions will be put in place to recognise and support areas with important connections to Gaelic and to support people who live and work in those areas. In the proposed strategy and standards, we will set out our priorities and the targets that we will aim for.
The bill introduces powers to designate areas of linguistic significance, or ALS. It is envisioned that Gaelic communities will be empowered through the designation process and that ALS will support practical steps such as delivery of services through the medium of Gaelic and improved provision of Gaelic education, which local authorities could prioritise. The bill includes a range of GME provisions, strengthens reporting and requires ministers to establish strategies and standards. Those are new provisions that will enable more progress.
The bill will make a difference. We have answered the challenges that were raised in stage 1: new investment has been provided; we have demonstrated that the bill is not symbolic; we have addressed key Gaelic education concerns; we have prioritised community activity; and we have agreed that ambitious targets are needed.
The Deputy First Minister has spoken about the investment that comes with the bill. What are her reflections on previous investment in the Gaelic language? I am thinking about police cars and uniforms being labelled with both the language of Scotland and Gaelic. Could that investment have been put, years ago, into the Gaelic services that we see today, rather than being spent on something symbolic on police cars and uniforms? Would that have been a better way to spend that money?
Tha an t-iongnadh orm gu bheil am ball a’ faighneachd mu chàraichean is rudan mar sin, gu h-àraidh às dèidh buidsead far a bheil barrachd airgead gu lèir airson na Gàidhlig, barrachd na £30 millean, £5 millean a bharrachd na bha anns a’ bhuidsead airson na Gàidhlig roimhe.
Agus bidh fhios aigesan nach eil na rudan sin samhlachail—gu bheil e cudromach gu bheil sinn a’ faicinn a’ chànan againn fhèin. Tha sinn a’ pàigheadh chìsean mar a h-uile duine eile, agus mar sin tha e cudromach gu bheil cothroman aig daoine aig a bheil Gàidhlig a bhith a’ fuireach agus a’ cleachdadh na Gàidhlig fad na h-ùine.
Following is the simultaneous interpretation:
I am surprised that the member is asking about cars and such like, especially after a budget in which there is more money overall for Gaelic—more than £30 million, which is £5 million more than there was for Gaelic in the previous budget. Further, he will know that these things are not symbolic—that it is important that we see our own language. We pay taxes like everyone else, so it is important that people who speak Gaelic have opportunities to live in and use Gaelic all the time.
A bheil an Leas-Phrìomh Ministear ag aontachadh nach eil e dìreach a’ dèanamh ciall gu bheil daoine no dhà bho àm gu àm ag ràdh nach iad an aghaidh na Gàidhlig ach dìreach gu bheil iad an aghaidh a’ Ghàidhlig fhaicinn?
Following is the simultaneous interpretation:
Does the Deputy First Minister agree that it simply does not make sense that, from time to time, some people say that they are not against Gaelic, only that they are against seeing Gaelic?
Tha tòrr dhaoine an aghaidh chànanan mar a’ Ghàidhlig agus Albais ach aig a’ cheann thall tha daoine a tha a’ bhòtadh airson nam pàrtaidhean air leth aig a bheil Gàidhlig agus aig a bheil Albais agus tha e cudromach gu bheil sinn a’ riochdachadh daoine bho gach pàrtaidh aig a bheil an cànan. Mur a bheil daoine ann an Alba a’ toirt taic dhan chànan againn fhèin, chan eil dùthaich sam bith eile a’ dol a bhith taiceil leis a’ chànan againn fhèin. Tha mi a' smaointinn nach eil moran uine agam air fhàgail so tha e cudromach gu bheil sinn dìreach a’ dol a chumail oirnn.
Following is the simultaneous interpretation:
There are many people who are against Gaelic and Scots, but there are also many people who vote for our parties who speak Gaelic and Scots, and it is important that we represent all those people. If people in Scotland do not support our own language, no other country will support it.
I do not think that I have much time left, so it is important to keep going.
The member continued in Gaelic:
Bidh am bile seo, leis na h-atharrachaidhean agus na sgrìobhainnean cudromach a leanas, a’ toirt dhuinn am frèam-obrach a dh’fheumas sinn gus adhartas a bharrachd a choisinn do Ghàidhlig agus Albais. Bidh cumhaichean a’ bhile ag obair còmhla ri chèile agus feumaidh ar fòcas a-nis a bhith air buileachadh a’ bhile agus a bhith a’ dèanamh an fheum as motha às na cumhaichean ùra seo.
Following is the simultaneous interpretation:
The bill, as amended, and the important documents that follow will give us the framework that we need to make more progress on Gaelic and Scots. The provisions of the bill will work together, and the focus now must be on implementation and on making the most of the new provisions.
Thank you, Deputy First Minister. Can I just check whether you moved the motion in Gaelic?
I did not, but I will move it now.
I move,
That the Parliament agrees that the Scottish Languages Bill be passed.
17:30
I start by thanking the many individuals and organisations who have engaged with me on the bill and the Deputy First Minister and her officials for their positive engagement.
I joined the Education, Children and Young People Committee last October, so I very much came late to the party in relation to the bill. However, I hope that the amendments that were agreed to, to simplify Gaelic-medium education requests, and some of the other measures in the bill will provide a strong framework that will ultimately help to develop future pathways to learn to speak Gaelic, especially for the young speakers of tomorrow.
After 25 years of the Scottish Parliament, I do not think that we can look back and see the progress that many of us would like to have seen to not only protect but develop the language. There have been some positive developments, but we need to be honest that the language continues to be vulnerable and that it must be nurtured if it is to survive and thrive.
Twenty years after the Gaelic Language (Scotland) Act 2005, we must take stock of the policy frameworks, including in relation to Gaelic language plans, Gaelic-medium education and initiatives to raise the profile of Gaelic in various sectors, given that they have not achieved the outcomes that we all, including members in previous parliamentary sessions, hoped that they would. I very much associate myself with Michael Marra’s remarks about targets and our ability to judge where progress is needed and where resources need to be focused.
We can look at the example that Wales has set. In saying that, I acknowledge that Wales has been proactive in protecting the Welsh language since the 1930s. Significant progress has been made in Wales to protect and develop the language. That includes the target that the Welsh Parliament has set to have 1 million Welsh speakers by 2050, and other targets relating to the use of the language.
The Welsh Language and Education (Wales) Bill also establishes a statutory body—the national Welsh language learning institute—and, in that regard, I very much welcome the amendments to this bill in the name of Willie Rennie that were agreed to in relation to Sabhal Mòr Ostaig. I visited many years ago with Liz Smith, and I was hugely impressed by the work that the institution was undertaking. There is also probably no better view outside a lecture theatre—perhaps only here in the capital. I hope that the opportunity in the bill for the institution to move forward as a national centre for Gaelic language education and culture can be secured as soon as possible. I hope that we will see as soon as possible the positive progress on that that the Deputy First Minister has outlined and said that she wants to be made.
I am pleased to have managed to work cross party to take forward amendments on Gaelic-medium education and on simplifying the process for parents and carers to request GME. It is important that local authorities can then accommodate and progress those requests. I fully acknowledge the financial pressures that councils face, but if we are going to save the Gaelic language and improve the uptake of speakers, it is important that that is taken forward.
I very much welcome the positive work that I have been able to undertake with the Government and with campaigners. I thank Wilson McLeod and Dr Gillian Munro, who are here today, for their help and support with those amendments and for their work over many years to support and promote Gaelic-medium education. Future pathways to speak and learn Gaelic are now part of the bill, and I hope that those pathways will succeed where, previously, we have not seen the number of people speaking and learning Gaelic pick up.
I hope that the development of the areas of linguistic significance has the potential to not only stabilise the language but help to create a positive localised environment to give people the confidence to use their language and to further develop structures around speakers. On a visit to Cnoc Soilleir, on South Uist, with the Social Justice and Social Security Committee, I saw at first hand how the community hub not only helps to promote and celebrate the community’s Gaelic cultural heritage but provides a multigenerational learning space to save and take forward the language. That provides a great vision for how the public and private sectors can come together to do some of the policy work.
It is clear that, in the coming years, we will continue to face financial pressures. However, I hope that we will have cross-party understanding that resources should rightly focus on making the greatest possible progress on stabilising and growing the language in the areas where it is most widely spoken. A figure of 20 per cent has been put on that in the bill. The areas of linguistic significance that the bill creates will be important in enabling us to see where the language is being developed.
Scottish Conservatives have a long and proud record of supporting the Gaelic language, from the late 1990s, when John Major’s Government made positive reforms, until the present. I place on the record the contributions of a number of my colleagues, both past and present—Liz Smith, Donald Cameron, Ted Brocklebank and Sir Jamie McGrigor—who, over a long time, have made distinguished contributions to supporting the Gaelic language in the Parliament.
On its own, the bill will not turn around the decline in the Gaelic language. However, I hope that its overall policy aims—of increasing the use of Gaelic and furthering opportunities to learn it—will ensure that a vibrant part of Scotland’s cultural landscape will exist for generations to come, and that we will all look back at this point as giving us an opportunity to take the language forward.
Scottish Conservatives will support the motion at decision time.
I call Michael Marra to open the debate on behalf of Scottish Labour.
17:36
It is now 20 years since the Gaelic Language (Scotland) Act 2005 was passed. The vital question for us all now is where the Gaelic language will be in 20 years’ time.
In 2020, research by academics at the University of the Highlands and Islands, entitled “The Gaelic Crisis in the Vernacular Community”, revealed stark findings. It said that the social use of Gaelic within communities was
“at the point of collapse.”
The decline in the number of Gaelic speakers was steepest among young people, the majority of whom were not using Gaelic either socially or in the home. The researchers warned that, without changes to policy and intervention at community level, the then-present Gaelic vernacular community would not survive beyond the next decade. That was five years ago, so time is clearly running out.
I have genuinely appreciated the Deputy First Minister’s collegiate approach since she took over dealing with the bill. Various members with far greater and longer-standing knowledge of this policy area than I have have told me that there is a desire to maintain the consensus on Gaelic matters that has underpinned previous laws, and I think that that is represented in parts of the bill’s approach. We should certainly not risk joining the prevalent culture wars by politicising the Gaelic culture and language.
However, the Parliament’s cross-party group on Gaelic, of which I am a member, is genuinely concerned that cosy consensus is simply not working and that we are continuing to go in the wrong direction. We were therefore disappointed that, in the face of this existential crisis for Scotland’s ancient language, the Scottish National Party Government chose to introduce a narrowly drawn, education-focused bill. I have expressed that view to the Deputy First Minister.
Of course, education is important for the survival of Gaelic, but it is not the principal means by which the language will be saved or where changes are required. The underlying reasons for the decline in the number of Gaelic speakers, particularly among younger generations, are not in the excellent teaching that is found in Stornoway or in the Gaelic-medium education schools in Glasgow or Edinburgh. The principal issues that endanger Gaelic are economic and social ones. Young people grow up in traditional Gaelic-speaking areas, but they find that there are not enough homes, well-paid jobs, reliable ferries or roads there to enable them to build lives for themselves and their communities. Instead, they leave for opportunities in urban areas, in Scotland or further afield, which are far from the Gaelic heartlands, and, increasingly, they are unlikely to return. Those are the issues that the Parliament and, I hope, the Government should tackle, but they are all outwith the scope of the bill.
Scottish Labour’s 2023 policy paper “Gaelic: An Economic Plan for a Living Language” argued that economic issues including housing, jobs and other critical infrastructure must be addressed in order to arrest the decline of Gaelic. The short-life working group on economic and social opportunities for Gaelic, which the Deputy First Minister herself commissioned in March 2022, made similar arguments in its report. Although its members perhaps did not go as far as Scottish Labour did in our paper; their comments were similar in tone. The Government does not appear to have listened to those arguments, though. I ask the Deputy First Minister to reflect on them in her closing remarks. I fear that the SNP Government has turned its face against the real prospect that, in 20 years’ time, there could be no Gaelic language left to save, because it has been put in the pile of issues that are too hard to deal with.
I welcome the amendments that the Government has worked with members across the chamber to lodge and the modest and incremental changes that they bring to the bill.
I was struck this week that the focus of the Government’s press activity on the bill has been Gaelic-medium education. We are strong supporters of Gaelic-medium education, and minor tweaks have been supported by all parties to ensure that that is provided. However, it is, inevitably, peripheral to whether Gaelic survives as a living language. That is part of the evidence that comes out, and perhaps part of what the Deputy First Minister referred to as the challenge that emerges from the census figures—although there is a larger number of people speaking a basic level of Gaelic, the number of people who continue to use it beyond childhood is decreasing rather than increasing. We have to be concerned about the ability to use Gaelic as a living language rather than as peripheral to people’s lives, or as an add-on to Scottish culture; it must be integral to the way that people live their lives.
Scottish Labour will support the bill at decision time, but we will do so while sounding the alarm that, in the words of the Deputy First Minister, merely building on what has come before will be insufficient to meet the sure trust of our ancestors, with a near certainty that if we do not change course and Gaelic is lost in this generation, part of Scotland will be gone forever.
I call Ross Greer to open on behalf of the Scottish Greens.
17:41
I think that we all went into the bill process agreeing about not only the crisis for Gaelic as a living language but its importance to Scotland’s culture, but there was not that same consensus on the status, importance or even definition of Scots. We have grown support for legislative provisions on Scots through the process, but, as we have just seen from some of the last votes on amendments, it is clear that there is more work to do to build consensus across the Parliament in support of the language. I am glad, though, that my amendments to include provisions on more education resources and on extending the Scots language strategy to more public bodies were at least agreed to by majority.
I do not want to lose sight of the importance of what I think is the most significant element of the bill for the Scots language, which is simply its recognition in law for the first time. Symbolic recognition is important, after centuries of denigration. Scots is a living language and thrives in all sorts of ways that Gaelic does not, despite sustained efforts to force it out.
We have waited 20 years for a new bill on Gaelic. It is fair to say that, when the bill was first published, it was underwhelming and would not have had the transformational impact that we are all looking for. The amendments that have been lodged and agreed to over stages 2 and 3 have made significant improvements to it. I commend the excellent bill team, who worked with members of all parties on amendments. They are brilliant advocates for both languages in the Scottish Government, and the cabinet secretary should be very proud of their work.
We all understand the context for Gaelic. As has been mentioned, the number of learners is growing, largely as a result of the Duolingo effect and the establishment of more GME schools in our cities. However, in traditional communities, where Gaelic is a living language, it is in steep decline. Misneachd Alba, the Gaelic activist organisation, has said:
“We desperately need qualitative targets, both overall and in GME output. We are seeing an improvement in the overall numbers of people who self-identify as having some Gaelic ability, thanks to Duolingo, GME and other learning initiatives. However, we are still seeing a precipitous decline in people who can and do use the language in their daily lives.”
We have started to address that with the reporting requirements and some of the specifics that will come later through guidance and strategy, but the contrast between the growth in the number of people with Gaelic language skills in our cities and the decline in traditional communities is stark. There is huge demand for GME schools in Glasgow and Edinburgh, and some extracurricular activities in Gaelic are being established, so there is some progress, but it is clearly not yet a community language there—you cannot use Gaelic when you go shopping in Glasgow or Edinburgh.
Compare that with the evidence that one of our witnesses gave us. She had been in Stornoway a couple of days before coming to Parliament for the stage 1 process. She said that one of the best examples that she could give of Gaelic as a living language was seeing a group of teenage boys misbehaving in Gaelic in Stornoway. That was the example that she used of what a living language really looks like.
New, tangible provisions in the bill to advance that are essential, but I do not think that we should dismiss the value of the signal in and of itself that Parliament sends by passing the bill. Symbolism matters. The legitimacy of Gaelic and Scots in this country is still being challenged, and the Government and Parliament are making a clear statement in law that we believe that these languages—our languages—have value.
The bill goes some way towards addressing those challenges; however, on its own, it is clearly not enough. No one would suggest that it is, but this afternoon is a hugely important moment, as I said, because for the first time in 20 years for Gaelic and the first time ever for Scots, those languages are being recognised in law by the Parliament. We have a stronger bill in front of us as a result of the work of the Parliament and tireless advocates such as Wilson McLeod, Gillian Munro and Matthew Fitt from Scots Hoose. We can all be proud of the bill that we are going to vote for this afternoon.
17:45
On occasions such as this, I feel inadequate in that I do not speak the Gaelic language. However, in the past, Liberal Democrat members have been fluent—well, John Farquhar Munro was a keen advocate of the language. On one occasion when he was delivering his contribution to a debate, the interpretation went silent, so George Lyon, another former colleague of mine, made a point of order to ask whether something was technically incorrect. However, it was not; it was just that the interpreter could not understand a word that John Farquhar Munro was saying. Such is, perhaps, the diversity of the language.
I am grateful to the Deputy First Minister for piloting the bill, because—to answer the points that Michael Marra made—it has given a new focus and energy to the revitalisation of the Gaelic language. We were pretty underwhelmed by the bill when we started. It is pretty minimalist. Ross Greer is right to say that it has improved, but the reality is that if we are relying on just the bill to revitalise the language, we will fail. I was grateful that the Deputy First Minister recognised that. If she had started the process, this would not be her bill; she would be doing something much more substantial, together with the wider plan that she has instigated in other areas.
We know that we are in a crisis. There is a real determination from many, but that might not be enough. We saw from the witnesses who gave evidence to the committee that there were pretty strong views and tensions. On some occasions, it was just as well that the witnesses sat with somebody in between them, because they felt so strongly about the language and its importance.
Like Ross Greer, I am incredibly grateful for the support of the bill team. Not only are its members outstanding; they care deeply about the language. That gives me confidence that we will be able to move forward and make progress.
The language used to be suppressed by the state. Now, it is supported by the state and elevated by the state. However, just when the state is behind the language, people are neglecting it in their communities and moving away from it. That should alarm us. Although we are getting the language expanded and spread across Scotland in schools, when it comes to the pub, the cafe or the home, people do not use the language daily in the way that we would like it to be used. It should not be peripheral but central to their lives. We need a critical mass to make that happen, and extra support in communities will be required to give it critical mass and enhanced credibility so that it does not retreat further.
A bizarre knock-on effect of spreading Gaelic-medium education into our cities is that there is now a shortage of Gaelic-medium education teachers in many schools in traditional Gaelic-speaking areas. It is bizarre—extraordinary, in some ways—that the very communities that we are trying to help are being damaged by that expansion across the country. We therefore need to make sure that we give the right support in our traditional communities.
I am pleased that the Sabhal Mòr Ostaig amendment was passed, and I hope that the college will be given enhanced and elevated status so that it becomes a national centre. I am pleased that we are moving towards a simplified process for designating Gaelic-medium education schools.
I am particularly interested in the potential of the Gàidhealtachd—the areas of linguistic significance. On the surface, the concept is pretty vacuous and might not mean an awful lot, unless local authorities and communities really get behind it. My hope is that it will be a central gathering point for the energy for change, so that the retreat is reversed and progress is enhanced.
Finally, I am also pleased about the enhancement, for the first time, for Scots. It is an important part of our community and society and we should be supporting it.
We move to the open debate.
17:50
Tha mi air leth toilichte am pìos reachdais seo fhaicinn air ar beulaibh an-diugh, còrr beag is fichead bliadhna on a chaidh gabhail ris a’ chiad achd na Gàidhlig—Achd na Gàidhlig (Alba) 2005—achd a thug inbhe don Ghàidhlig ann an dòighean gu math cudromach.
Tha am bile ùr seo a’ neartachadh agus ag atharrachadh an reachdais a th’ againn mar-thà, gus dèanamh cinnteach gu bheil sinn a’ dìon agus a’ brosnachadh na Gàidhlig agus Albais anns an dòigh a b’ fheàrr agus as èifeachdaiche agus as urrainn dhuinn airson nan ginealaichean rin tighinn.
Following is the simultaneous interpretation:
I am delighted to see this piece of legislation before us today, just over 20 years since the first Gaelic language act—the Gaelic Language (Scotland) Act 2005—gave Gaelic status in very important ways.
This new bill strengthens and amends the legislation that we already have, to ensure that we protect and promote Gaelic and Scots in the best and most effective way possible for generations to come.
The member continued in Scots:
The maist o whit A hae tae say the day is anent Gaelic, as ane wad expeck fae the memmer for the Wastren Isles. But a wheen o memmers kens at A grew up in anither pairt o Scotland awthegither, whaur Scots is tae the fore yet. Scots is at the hert o monie lawland communities, an for aw the sneers o some fowk at kens nae better, it is at the hert o Scotland’s leiterature forby.
Sae A am gled tae see at the ack afoore us minds baith o Scotland’s native leids. A hope we can be by wi aw the antrim nories aboot Scots at wes threapit frae sindrie airts an pairts o this chaumer the last time we spak here o the subjeck, an recogneise the day at aw leids haes dialecks—Gaelic an Scots baith—at bilingual road signs isna the enn o ceivilisation, an at Scots an Gaelic isna like the nose an chin o Willie Wastle’s wife—bi which A ettle tae say, they dinna threaten ither, or oniebodie else.
The member continued in Gaelic:
Co dhiubh, tha mi airson oidhirpean luchd-ùidhe a mholadh—an dà chuid airson na h-obrach cruaidh a rinneadh le diofar dhaoine agus bhuidhnean thairis air an ùine a dh’fhalbh, agus airson am bile seo fhèin a leasachadh on a chaidh fhoillseachadh.
Chaidh an t-uabhas obrach a dhèanamh airson am bile a dhèanamh na bu làidire. Tha mi gu math taingeil don Leas-phrìomh Mhinisteir airson a bhith ag obair còmhla riumsa, agus còmhla ri càch, airson na beachdan againne a thoirt a-steach dhan bhile far an robh sin comasach a dhèanamh.
Tha fhios gu bheil beachdan diofraichte ann a thaobh na dòigh air adhart gus a’ Ghàidhlig a dhìon mar fhìor chànan coimhearsnachd. Bha iomadach daoine an-diugh a’ bruidhinn mu dheidhinn sin. Mar a bha daoine a’ bruidhinn mu dheidhinn cuideachd, tha sinn aig àm cugallach. Ged a bha figearan de luchd-ionnsachaidh na Gàidhlig air èirigh gu soilleir anns an dàta bhon chunntas-sluaigh mu dheireadh, gu mì-fhortanach tha a’ Ghàidhlig fhathast a’ crìonadh air a’ Ghàidhealtachd, agus gu h-àraid anns Na h-Eileanan an Iar.
’S e mo dhùil gum bi modhan-obrach ùra—mar na sgìrean cànain sònraichte—air an cur an cèill anns an reachdas seo a chuireas maille air a’ chrìonadh sin gus an cànan a ghlèidheadh anns na coimhearsnachdan againn, a’ toirt stèidh làidir do dh’obair-leasachaidh a bhitheas nas fhaisge air na daoine.
Chunnaic sin soirbheachas ann am foghlam tro mheadhan na Gàidhlig thairis air an leth-cheud bliadhna a dh’fhalbh. Tha iarrtas mòr air an dòigh-foghlaim seo, agus a dh’aindeoin nan cnapan-starra a th’ ann an cois trèanadh agus fastadh luchd-teagaisg, chì sinn gu bheil àireamhan nan sgoilearan a thèid tro fhoghlam Gàidhlig a’ sìor-èirigh. Am measg nan iomadh iomairt air feadh na dùthcha, bu thoil leam moladh a thoirt gu h-àraid air oidhirpean Comhairle nan Eilean Siar gus àrd-sgoil Ghàidhlig a stèidheachadh.
Tha mi’ n dòchas gum bi am bile seo a’ neartachadh oidhirpean den t-seòrsa seo air feadh na h-Alba agus gum bi a’ Phàrlamaid againn fhèin ag aithneachadh ann an dòigh ùr an-diugh gu bheil Alba nas fheàrr dheth airson na dìleib iomadh-chànanach a th’ againn mar dhùthaich.
Following is the simultaneous interpretation:
I commend stakeholders for their efforts—the hard work that has been done by various people and groups over the years—and for their work on the development of this bill since it was published.
A great deal of work has been done to make the bill stronger. I am very grateful to the Deputy First Minister for working with me and others to incorporate our views into the bill where possible.
It is recognised that there are differing views on how to proceed in order to protect Gaelic as a genuine community language at such a sensitive stage. Although the figures for Gaelic learners have clearly risen according to the most recent census data, unfortunately, Gaelic is still in decline in the Highlands, particularly in the Western Isles.
It is my hope that the new approaches, such as the areas of linguistic significance, which are set out in this legislation, will slow that decline, in order to preserve the language in our communities and provide a strong basis for development work that is closer to the people.
We have seen the success of Gaelic-medium education over the past 50 years. There is great demand for this form of education and, despite the challenges in training and recruiting teachers, the number of pupils who are receiving Gaelic-medium education is continuing to rise. Among the many initiatives across the country, I particularly commend Comhairle nan Eilean Siar in its efforts to establish a Gaelic secondary school.
I hope that the bill will strengthen such efforts across Scotland and that our Parliament will recognise, in a new way today, that, as a country, Scotland is better off for our multilingual heritage.
We move to closing speeches.
17:54
It is a privilege to follow Dr Alasdair Allan, who has done so much to contribute to Gaelic and Scots.
As has already been said, this bill alone will not save Gaelic or restore Scots to the status that it deserves—there are so many other factors at play. I will start by touching on an issue that a few other members have mentioned, which is the housing crisis that is driving the crisis in Gaelic as a living language. That crisis is largely being driven by the increase in holiday homes and short-term lets.
One councillor in Skye reckons that 60 per cent of properties there are empty over the winter because they are second homes or short-term lets. House prices on Skye are £60,000 higher than the national average. That is driving young people and young Gaelic speakers out of their communities. Those are exactly the kind of people who we need to stay in these communities to continue Gaelic as a living language, but they are being driven out because, as adults, it is simply impossible for them to find somewhere to live in their own community.
The licensing of short-term lets has definitely helped, but it does not go nearly far enough. Far more targeted housing policy is needed specifically to support the recovery and survival of Gaelic as a living language. I suggest targeted increases in the additional dwelling supplement for areas of linguistic significance as one of the most obvious ways in which we can lever tax policies to support Gaelic speakers to stay, live and raise families in the communities that they have grown up in. The third stage of the Housing (Scotland) Bill, which will take place after the summer recess, is an opportunity for all parties to make proposals, given that, across the stages of this bill, speakers from all parties have raised housing as one of the key issues for us to consider.
To stick with Skye, I am proud of the provisions in the bill for Sabhal Mòr Ostaig and my work with Gillian Munro, Willie Rennie, the Cabinet Secretary for Education and Skills and the bill team. We have set a clear process and direction of travel. Sabhal Mòr Ostaig is a world-class institution and a change in its status and enhanced abilities will be crucial to the delivery of the wider agenda that we all share for Gaelic recovery, not least to address the shortage of GME teachers.
The teaching resource provisions that we have just agreed to will also make GME teaching a more attractive prospect and will, I hope, reduce and eliminate the significant additional workload that puts Gaelic speakers off becoming Gaelic-medium teachers. I was surprised by Labour’s opposition to those provisions being extended to Scots. I would be happy to discuss that with Labour, but I am glad that those provisions have been passed, because we need to end the shame that has been felt by millions of Scots for speaking our own language in our own country. Most, if not all, of us have been reprimanded at some point in our lives and told to speak properly simply for using one of this country’s native languages.
Success will look different in different places. In our cities, it is about moving beyond GME school provision and into community spaces, whereas, in the likes of Skye or Lewis, it is about protecting Gaelic as a community and a living language. That latter point is the most critical.
I want to recognise the different perceptions and appetites in different communities, and we should recognise the hostility to these efforts. There is not always an inherent hostility to Gaelic; in some cases, and in our cities, we need to recognise the class dynamics around GME education. I welcome the location of the new GME school in the Calton in Glasgow. We should recognise that parents of kids whose needs are not being met in English-medium schools can understandably be frustrated to see additional resources for GME schools, whose pupils are overwhelmingly drawn from more privileged socioeconomic backgrounds. However, the solution is to resource all schools and to meet the needs of all kids, not to play different needs off against one other.
It grates a bit when some argue that the range of social ills that we face means that we should not be prioritising the recovery of our native languages. After centuries of decline and deliberate marginalisation and oppression, when should that start? I hope that all parties remember the comments that they have made today when it comes to budget time and the allocation of resources.
This is a good day for Gaelic, Scots and Scotland. The bill is just one part of the puzzle, but the Parliament is sending a message today that these are our languages. If Scotland’s Parliament will not support and protect them, no one else will. It may be that I am being optimistic, but I hope that today will be seen as a turning point and, in particular, that it will be the start of Gaelic’s recovery as a living, celebrated language.
17:59
I apologise to the Presiding Officer, the Deputy First Minister and others in the chamber for my late arrival to the debate this afternoon.
I am pleased to close today’s debate on behalf of Scottish Labour and to confirm our support for the Scottish Languages Bill at stage 3. I thank the legislation team, who I suspect have scored me off their Christmas card list this week after the significant number of amendments that I lodged. They work tirelessly, and I appreciate all the work that they do.
I also thank the Deputy First Minister and her team for engaging with us on the bill. Finally, I thank my team and members across the Labour benches for their support in getting us to where we are today.
A Labour-led Government introduced the Gaelic Language (Scotland) Act 2005. Like others, we are committed to the language’s survival and revival, and to supporting the cultural, educational and community life that surrounds it, which others, including the Deputy First Minister and Dr Allan, have spoken passionately about today. The aim of supporting and enhancing that community life has driven our approach to the bill. Without a living community and a working economy, the Gaelic community and our ancient culture will cease to exist.
As my colleague Michael Marra set out, we regret that the scope of the bill did not extend directly to such matters as housing, jobs and connectivity. Academics and the report of the short-life working group on economic and social opportunities for Gaelic, led by Kate Forbes, agree that those matters are crucial, so I hope that the bill will be a catalyst to ensuring that they get the attention that they need.
Nonetheless, we worked hard to have a meaningful role in strengthening the bill, because we know that, without significant action, Gaelic will cease to be a living language. Our amendments helped communities to have a key voice in action on Gaelic, and those people will now be involved in decisions about their community and their language.
I am disappointed that the Government did not support the provision of a dedicated development officer, because that could have ensured that there would be a local resource working with communities. However, I hope that, in supporting the board to discharge the duties that the Deputy First Minister mentioned, the Government can ensure that the areas and communities that are designated in the act get the help that they need to grow their community and ensure that their language flourishes.
Thanks to my colleague Michael Marra, with the support of the Government and others, there will now be targets in law, which are essential to ensuring that we meet the level of action that is needed for the language to survive. For the first time, the Scottish Qualifications Authority will be under a duty to ensure that a meaningful number of qualifications are available through the medium of Gaelic and that resources are provided to support that.
Ross Greer, Miles Briggs and Willie Rennie have also spoken passionately and acted to give meaning to the bill for education, including parental rights, provision for schools and support for Sabhal Mòr Ostaig. Although we still believe that the bill could and should have gone further, many of those changes mean that the bill now begins to meet the challenge that many campaigners and academics have pointed to: that Gaelic cannot be revived solely in the classroom. It must live in communities, and, with the right structures and support, it can.
I thank colleagues from across the chamber who worked together to improve the bill. Those changes reflect what we heard in the committee and from others, which was that, for the Gaelic language to thrive, it must be visible, viable and valued not only in schools but in homes, workplaces and public life.
The bill was not perfect, and the work does not end here, but, with the amendments that the Parliament has now made, we believe that it has a much stronger foundation. The challenge is now around implementation and the provision by the Government of the long-term resource and leadership that are needed. I am sure that, together, we will rise to that challenge, because Gaelic communities have waited too long for action, and it is time that we matched our words with delivery. I hope that today’s bill will make that happen.
18:02
It is a privilege for me to be able to close this afternoon’s debate on the Scottish Language Bill on behalf of the Scottish Conservatives.
As I said in the stage 1 debate, as Scottish Conservatives, whose ethos is based on tradition, we believe that our customs and heritage play an important part in who we are. We are proud of our shared culture and agree that we need to uphold and encourage our traditional languages. If I can play on language for just a second, what can be more basic to a Scottish Conservative than the conservation of Scots?
Language, in all its forms, is the key to communication, but so little communication is effective. The innate understanding of the spoken and written word is not only the way to break down barriers, it is essential in fostering bonds and ensuring that traditions are there for generations to come. The Deputy First Minister will be pleased to hear that I am not going to repeat the history lesson on the origins of Scots.
Scottish Conservatives support making Gaelic more accessible. It is important that we highlight that that is not a party-centric effort. There is an awful lot of support across the chamber for making sure that Gaelic is more accessible. That is what the bill sets out to achieve. However, again we find ourselves worried about the ability of the bill to achieve its aims. We cannot legislate and forget.
It will be no surprise to members to hear that I am interested in the education, care and wellbeing of the children of Scotland. In education debates, we are often reminded of the need for our councils to have the autonomy to progress Government legislation and guidance. That suggests that, should the bill be agreed today—I am sure that it will be—the enactment of its provisions will be entirely down to local authorities. It is therefore worrying to read the briefing that COSLA issued for today’s debate. Also, as Willie Rennie stated earlier, where are the Gaelic teachers?
It is all well and good to move forward on legislation, but it is the outcomes that matter. As a former councillor I know at first hand the issues in taking forward educational changes—the 1,140 hours expansion of childcare provides a classic example.
COSLA is quite right to highlight its concerns. It states:
“Our submission to the earlier consultation referenced a report which noted that far too few Gaelic Medium Education Teachers were being trained. The pipeline of Gaelic teachers is often out with local authority control, and without concerted action from the Scottish Government and partners to increase the number of Gaelic teachers, any expansion would not be deliverable.”
That issue must be addressed.
We know from other Government projects, including the 1,140 hours expansion of childcare provision, that funding falters at the first hurdle. COSLA also highlights that issue, raising concerns in relation to the estimated costs for local government. It notes that sufficient information to allow an assessment of the accuracy of estimated costs was not provided, but that those estimates “seemed low” and that cost estimates of some implications for local authorities appeared to be missing.
It goes on to highlight that
“The supplementary financial memorandum focuses only on costs associated with Stage 2 amendments”
and that
“Concern remains that the costs of implementing the Bill have not been sufficiently captured.”
The Government must do more to ensure that the funding is provided to do that.
COSLA’s final point is that, at stage 2, there was a fully agreed amendment by the committee for Gaelic education. The Scottish Government introduced amendments to create a process for local authorities to consider requests to establish all-Gaelic schools. Local government is concerned about the time, resource and the expense of carrying out those new duties. There are a number of all-Gaelic schools in the absence of the legislation.
Local government’s view is that section 22A takes away the ability of an education authority to determine the best location for Gaelic language provision and requires them to spend officer time and effort on a process that might determine that provision is unviable.
The Scottish Conservatives recognise the good intentions behind the bill and see it as a springboard to speed up processes, but whether the legislation will stabilise or deliver a sustainable future for the Gaelic and Scots languages is far from clear. Only time will tell whether it goes the way of other initiatives for every child, such as free school meals, bikes and laptops, or whether we will see the development of our traditional speech. I wait with bated breath.
I call the Deputy First Minister to wind up the debate.
18:07
Presiding Officer,
“’S ged a dh’ fheuch iad ri cur às dhuinn,
Chì mo theaghlach cnoc nan linn.
’S ged tha ar cànan leòint’ le strì,
San tìr seo bidh i beò.”
The member continued in English:
“Although they tried to destroy us,
My children will see the landscape of generations.
Although our language has been wounded in its struggle,
In this land she will live on.”
As I close the debate, I want to stress at the outset that my primary concern throughout this process has been to progress the bill on a cross-party basis. There have been keen advocates for the bill in every party that is represented here today. The Conservatives can be proud that theirs was the party that first introduced the very concept of Gaelic-medium education. Labour—with, I think, some support from the Lib Dems—can be proud that it introduced the bill that became the Gaelic Language (Scotland) Act 2005. My party has led on work in this area, too, and I have been grateful for the support of the Scottish Greens.
I said in answer to a previous intervention that there are voters across Scotland who use Gaelic as their everyday language—who live, breathe and work in the language. I know from speaking to them that it matters intensely to them that they have representatives who not only reflect their values and concerns in the political sphere but realise how precious their language is.
I am therefore grateful to members who have risen to the challenge of ensuring that the bill truly is a national endeavour, with representation, participation and contributions from every party. I am particularly grateful to Miles Briggs, who assumed responsibility for the bill after it was introduced.
The bill is a milestone and a marker of the progress that we are making. I, too, give my enormous thanks to the bill team and to the Government team, who are sitting up the back of the chamber and are, I hope, looking forward to an early night tonight after working extremely hard for about 18 months.
In debates about our languages, it is very difficult not to look back and forward. Language study and historical analysis show that, when the frontier of a Gaelic-speaking community—or, indeed, a Scots-speaking community—has receded, there is no evidence yet that it has recovered. My forebears hail from the Applecross peninsula. Some Gaelic can be heard there today, but it certainly does not have the same vibrancy as it did when I was a child. When speakers pass on, pass away and take with them the rich cultural heritage of a language, we lose something as a nation, unless it is passed on to the next generation.
I will also look to the future. As I think Ross Greer said, Gaelic and Scots are our languages. They are Scotland’s languages—they are nobody else’s languages. If we cannot protect and nurture them, nobody else will, so it is up to us.
The consultation responses and the evidence received on the bill have been enormously helpful. I smiled when Michael Marra—or perhaps it was Willie Rennie—talked about the fact that, occasionally, he was glad that the committee witnesses were separated. However, that speaks to the strength of feeling about language and the value of diversity and debate—and sometimes dispute—about the best way forward. It is because we care about the languages that we debate them, and it is in the debate that we have that democratic representation. As I said to Pam Duncan-Glancy in relation to her amendments in the first group, I applaud the debate that we have on language, and I am thankful for members’ participation in it.
Willie Rennie and Michael Marra both talked about the fact that legislation has limits. I would be the first to recognise that we cannot legislate language into existence. If language is truly a living, breathing medium of communication, it has to be about more than what Governments and Parliaments pass in the form of legislation.
I have been somewhat preoccupied by the bill, but, on Friday, I met members of the short-life working group on social and economic opportunities for Gaelic and stressed to them that our focus will be on implementing the recommendations that they made in their brilliant report. The areas that they raised are the very areas on which Parliament has been inviting me to go further. There are questions about population retention and infrastructure, housing, transport, digital connectivity, education, jobs and key sectors. Those are all the things that bring our communities to life, irrespective of where they are.
Those things are critically important for strengthening Gaelic because, ultimately, language is about the people. We talk about Gaelic and Scots as if they are tangible assets that are independent of people, but, ultimately, it is about the speakers, how they prosper and are successful, and how their wellbeing is taken into account. I would very much like to continue the cross-party consensus that we have achieved through the bill and to work with members to implement the recommendations that the short-life working group identified as critically important.
I will touch briefly on the points that Roz McCall made about local government, because she is absolutely right. Particularly in the discussions about areas of linguistic significance, we considered whether central Government should direct and mandate or whether there should be an iterative process with our local authorities. Our local authorities are key in taking responsibility and reflecting local diverse needs.
I have spoken to the three primary local authorities for Gaelic—Argyll and Bute Council, Highland Council and Western Isles Council—on which there is a variety of political representation. I want to work with them at pace to understand not just what will be expected of them but how we support them to take forward that work.
Presiding Officer, I have forgotten how much time you gave me, but I want to take a few more seconds to say that one of the biggest changes in the bill relates to education. Although we are focusing on community, we know that, for young people, learning the language and being able to study in their native tongue in school is critical.
The bill strengthens Gaelic-medium education considerably. The provision of Gaelic-medium education by an education authority can fulfil the foundational duty in our education law to provide adequate and efficient education. Authorities may consider that providing only Gaelic-medium education is appropriate in certain areas. Indeed, that is almost happening right now, but that will be the case in an area of linguistic significance where there is a high proportion of Gaelic speakers. An authority would be required to satisfy itself that, in doing so, it would be complying with its wider legal duties.
I started my speech with a quote from Rory and Calum MacDonald of Runrig, which ends on the point that she will live on in this land. That is the choice that we will make by passing the bill, and it is the choice that I hope that all future generations will make, because we should not squander the value, the heritage, the culture and the wealth in our language.
Air ais
Scottish Languages Bill: Stage 3Air adhart
Parliamentary Bureau Motion