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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 22 December 2025
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Displaying 1458 contributions

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Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 15 December 2022

Jeremy Balfour

I will move on, as I am conscious of time, to two questions about the next area that we are considering.

You might not have this information to hand, minister, so I am happy if you want to write to us with it. You helpfully said that other benefits were available, and you mentioned several of them, but do you know the number of people for whom this will be the only winter payment that they receive? There might be older people who are not entitled to, say, any of the benefits related to children. Do you have a breakdown of people for whom this will be the only winter heating payment that they will receive?

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 15 December 2022

Jeremy Balfour

There are four abstentions.

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 15 December 2022

Jeremy Balfour

With respect, minister, that is not what you said this morning. You said that you hope that we will get the payment out in February, but you were not willing to guarantee that we will get it in February. That seems to be a failing of the system.

I appreciate that a lot of the work was done before the minister came into post, but I would have thought that, with an issue of this importance and with the need to get information from the DWP, at some point over the past few months—not just this week, but in July, August or September—the minister would have picked up the telephone to his counterpart in London and said, “Actually, can you make this more of a priority? I appreciate that we’ve got”—

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 15 December 2022

Jeremy Balfour

Do you recognise that this is a new system devised by the Scottish Government? We have had a number of years to devise a scheme. Do you believe that this is the best scheme that could have been devised by the Scottish Government to cover everybody in Scotland and not just your constituents in Glasgow?

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 15 December 2022

Jeremy Balfour

On a point of order, and for the record, I would like you to know that I will seek to bring the regulations to the chamber when we come back after the recess, so that the whole Parliament can consider whether the regulations are appropriate.

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 15 December 2022

Jeremy Balfour

I am grateful that it is guaranteed, because it is not guaranteed. If the DWP were saying, “We will try to get a payment to you, but it might be several weeks late,” would that be acceptable? If it is not acceptable for the DWP, why is it acceptable for Social Security Scotland?

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 15 December 2022

Jeremy Balfour

I will push on for the moment.

You could have said, “I am pleased that there is a good relationship between DWP, the Scottish Government and Social Security Scotland, but could you get the information to us two or three weeks early?”

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 15 December 2022

Jeremy Balfour

Can I clarify, again through you, minister, how many meetings officials had with DWP officials to discuss how the new benefit would work?

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 15 December 2022

Jeremy Balfour

I will move on to my final question in this area. Your predecessor started with a blank piece of paper in designing a scheme. I accept that there were faults in the DWP scheme, and you have highlighted those, but the new system here has been criticised by a number of third sector charities. Did you consider any other scheme for deciding how to provide payments? For example, rather than take seven days at a certain temperature as the lower limit, did you look at three or four days? Why, in the end, did you come up with a scheme that, in certain years, will possibly leave a number of people in the coldest parts of Scotland less well off?

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 15 December 2022

Jeremy Balfour

No, I will move on, if that is okay, because I am conscious of the time and that we need to move on to other things.

My final point is that, if I had been sitting here a few years ago with Ben Macpherson, before he was a minister and when he was a member of the Social Security Committee, and the DWP had said, “We hope to get the payment to you by February, but, actually, we can’t guarantee that. It might be March before you get it,” there would have been outrage—rightly—from the committee. However, it seems that the committee is happy to say, “Well, maybe February, maybe March. Let’s just wait and see.” We are treating two systems completely differently.

It is time that the minister took responsibility. Payments are not being made on time. We can see people tweeting that they have not received the payment or that they have not received it when they should have. It is now time for Social Security Scotland to deliver it. I had hoped that the minister would be a bit more positive about the payment being made to everyone in February.

I ask that the minister go away with his officials to see whether he can come up with something better for next year. We will not vote against the motion because, clearly, not having the regulations in place would leave people even worse off. However, I am not sure that what is before us is what we envisaged when we hoped for new benefits from the Scottish Government.