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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 1 May 2025
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Displaying 1222 contributions

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Delegated Powers and Law Reform Committee

Framework Legislation and Henry VIII Powers

Meeting date: 28 January 2025

Jeremy Balfour

Yes.

Delegated Powers and Law Reform Committee

Framework Legislation and Henry VIII Powers

Meeting date: 28 January 2025

Jeremy Balfour

That is an interesting philosophical question, which might be for another day.

I will move on. As you will be aware, one issue with secondary legislation is that we have to take it or leave it—we vote for it or we vote against it. We can make comments but, ultimately, the power that Parliament has is to say yes or no. Some witnesses have suggested that there should be an ability to amend secondary legislation or have the ability to conditionally approve it. For example, that might allow us to say, “We like 98 per cent of this, but we have real concerns about 2 per cent. Would the Government look at that again and bring forward a fresh view on it?” Could that approach work? Would the Government be open to it?

Delegated Powers and Law Reform Committee

Framework Legislation and Henry VIII Powers

Meeting date: 21 January 2025

Jeremy Balfour

My question is for Jonathan Jones in the first instance. On the presumption that we can have some understanding of what a framework bill is, would it be helpful to have guidelines or an agreement between the Government and Parliament on how such bills should be dealt with and a governing framework that would ensure that both parties could work constructively together? Is that possible?

Delegated Powers and Law Reform Committee

Framework Legislation and Henry VIII Powers

Meeting date: 21 January 2025

Jeremy Balfour

Has that been thought about in Wales? Is it something that you are thinking of taking forward?

Delegated Powers and Law Reform Committee

Framework Legislation and Henry VIII Powers

Meeting date: 21 January 2025

Jeremy Balfour

Mr Jones, from a UK or Westminster perspective, we hear about co-design as well. Does that take place post or pre a framework bill being passed?

Delegated Powers and Law Reform Committee

Framework Legislation and Henry VIII Powers

Meeting date: 21 January 2025

Jeremy Balfour

I have a very brief question before you depart.

As you pointed out, secondary legislation cannot be amended—it is either accepted or rejected. It has been put to us that there should be some way in which a committee could seek conversations with the Government about amending secondary legislation or flag up that, for example, it agrees with 80 per cent of an instrument but has concerns about 20 per cent of it. The committee could ask the Government to go away and think about the issue again. Would that work, or is it something that sounds good in theory but, in practice, might not help?

Delegated Powers and Law Reform Committee

Framework Legislation and Henry VIII Powers

Meeting date: 21 January 2025

Jeremy Balfour

Do you have a view on that, Mr Carson?

Delegated Powers and Law Reform Committee

Framework Legislation and Henry VIII Powers

Meeting date: 21 January 2025

Jeremy Balfour

Mr Gibson, in your experience of a number of different committees, is there a role for the lead committee in taking further evidence between stage 2 and stage 3?

Delegated Powers and Law Reform Committee

Framework Legislation and Henry VIII Powers

Meeting date: 21 January 2025

Jeremy Balfour

I think that our witnesses have touched on this next issue, but they might want to expand on what was said. One of the Government’s justifications for having such bills is that it wants to make the process much more about consultation and taking stakeholders with it. The Government argues that that is easier to do once a framework bill has been passed. Are you sympathetic to that view, or should the consultation and development of policy with stakeholders take place before a bill appears in Parliament?

Delegated Powers and Law Reform Committee

Framework Legislation and Henry VIII Powers

Meeting date: 21 January 2025

Jeremy Balfour

Would it be helpful to have some kind of framework whereby, if there was a major change in policy between stage 1 and stage 2, there would be an opportunity for the relevant committees to carry out further scrutiny before stage 3? Could that work in practice, or would it just make more work for the committees?