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I take the point, but there are still people who will walk or cycle into a town centre. It has to be recognised that people want to feel safe and secure when they walk into and out of town and city centres, but it is also very important to recognise that not everyone has the same experience in that respect. There are aspects to consider with regard to people with disabilities, and there is also a gendered aspect, which is very important and something that we are considering very carefully in our work on the draft national planning framework. We want our policies to take cognisance of such points.

I suppose that it comes back to how decisions on planning and investment are taken, and asking, “Can this or that take place in a town centre?” or “Can we make use of that town centre asset?” In other words, it is about using the town centre first principle. It might be useful if David Cowan gives a bit of historical background about how the town centre first principle came along, and says something about how it is being applied and the difference that it is making.

I will ask Catherine Brown to come in on the digital boost programme in a moment.

The industry leadership group for retail is going to look at what we can do, and there are two aspects to that. There is a commitment on action to look at the aspects of the national strategy for economic transformation that are particularly relevant to the retail sector, and that will be an early priority for the ILG. Uptake of digital and productivity are key to that and the ILG will be looking at those specifically.

The other point that you touched on was skills, and digital skills will be captured by the skills audit and subsequent action plan that we will undertake as part of the work of the industry leadership group. We need to seize the opportunities that digital provides, to make it as inclusive as possible so that the workforce has opportunities to participate. We are very alive to that, and that will be taken forward as part of the work of the industry leadership group.

Catherine Brown might have something further to add.

I will ask Catherine Brown to come in in a moment. We have been engaging with the UK Government on that. As you will be aware, there is a commitment to explore the introduction of a national online sales tax. However, we are conscious that it is an area that the UK Government has been consulting on. It would be sensible to get a clear understanding of the UK Government’s position on such a tax before seeking to introduce a tax here, and the need to do that will be well understood. Obviously, if we introduced a tax, that we would be done in a way that is consistent with our framework for tax.

I spoke about the principle that we must be clear about what the tax is for and the issue of engagement. It is a speculative matter at the moment, because we are still to see firm proposals from the UK Government, but my understanding is that it has said that any revenues would be hypothecated towards non-domestic rates relief. Clearly, we would have to see what would come out of that. Of course, we would expect any money to come to Scotland via the Barnett formula as usual, and it would obviously be part of the budget process to decide how best to allocate that. However, we are very much getting ahead of ourselves here, because we need to see exactly what the UK Government will bring forward.

I ask Catherine whether she wants to add anything to that.

I will make two points. First, there is a commitment in “Housing to 2040” to undertake an empty homes audit. That is under way and should be completed by early next year, after which consideration will be given to further actions, including funding.

The second point concerns the planning system. In the consultation on permitted development rights, we are seeking views on including, for example, residential conversions. I do not think that there is strong stakeholder support for that, but we are keen to take views on it, because another aspect of the matter is the powers within the Planning (Scotland) Act 2019 on masterplan consent areas. Those can allow planning authorities to create planning regimes that are bespoke to specific areas within the planning authority area, in order to simplify planning processes.

We are considering funding in the empty homes audit, and we are considering what funding might come after it. On regulatory matters—that is, the planning system—we are undertaking the permitted development rights consultation and there is a commitment to commencing the masterplan consent areas provisions in the Planning (Scotland) Act 2019. Data gathering and analysis are under way. The next step will be to consider funding.

I take that point. I also point to the provisions of the draft national planning framework. I am conscious that it is a draft document and that the public consultation and parliamentary scrutiny have concluded, so I do not want to get into it in too much detail. However, the direction of travel is there: compact design, 20-minute neighbourhoods, limiting out-of-town development and taking a town centre first approach are all in the draft NPF.

We already include in the guidance for local housing strategies the need for the local authority to demonstrate how it is using the town centre first principle. Indeed, updated guidance on the strategic housing investment plans will be published shortly. It will ask local authorities to include a summary of investment priorities for housing in town centres within local housing strategies and SHIPs in NPF4, across a range of areas.

To complement my earlier points about the empty homes audit and PDR masterplan consent areas, I note that there is alignment on the need to increase the density of populations within town centres, as you mentioned. The key to realising our ambitions for town and city centres is more people living in them so that we have the density of population that is required to sustain commerce within towns and city centres. I recognise that as being an absolute priority.

The point is—I know that you made a similar point at an earlier meeting, Ms Hyslop—that we move away from the deficit model and look instead at opportunity and at what towns and city centres can do. They are the solution to so many of our problems; more people living in them will be an absolute necessity if we are to realise the ambition to have 20-minute neighbourhoods, which will be essential if we are to meet our ambitions to reduce greenhouse gas emissions.

The key point is that every town is different. It is not so much about what is done, specifically, on each project, but about how we go about it. That is why the place-based approach is fundamental.

Take, for example, the transformative impact that the great tapestry of Scotland is having on Galashiels. That was a strategic investment. A place-based approach was used with that and the transport interchange, and those things are having a positive impact.

I have not had the opportunity to go yet, but I know that you will have been to Midsteeple Quarter. I am going to visit that area during the next few weeks. There are examples around Scotland that are—if not completely unique or sui generis—distinct to their area and recognise the assets that particular towns and communities have and work around them.

I am conscious that we were in the high noon of planning in the decades following the second world war, and that during that period we could have standardisation and a uniform approach to regeneration. However, ultimately, that regeneration was done to communities rather than with them. That is the key difference in the place-based approach. We have to do things in partnership with communities and have local buy-in. That has to take place across a range of different areas, including local community groups taking on assets; increasing the number of pluralistic business models, whether they are employee ownerships or co-operatives; and greater engagement with the planning system. That could be done using local place plans and by strengthening community planning partnerships to ensure that the public, private and third sectors are working collaboratively. There is a need for a place-based approach and collaboration rather than some grand scheme that is developed remotely and imposed on a community. We have to work with communities and recognise their assets.

It is vital to have a way of working that involves engaging people and asking them what they want for their town and its town centre. David Cowan, do you want to add anything to that?

You will appreciate this, Mr Halcro Johnston, given the region that you represent, but I am always conscious of just attaching the “rural” label to an area and thinking that it catches everything, without recognising the diversity among rural communities. One area of particular relevance is community ownership, which is very well established in many rural communities. I would also say that a lot of community wealth building has already taken place. In conversations that I have had with rural communities, they have said, “We’ve been doing this stuff for ages. You city dwellers are just catching up.” That is very encouraging; it recognises that the approach is well established in those communities and that community-owned assets are incredibly important.

Clearly, local authorities and enterprise agencies have roles to play in working with communities, but there are questions that we at the national level have to ask. What frameworks do we have in place? Are our policies flexible and adaptable enough to meet particular circumstances? Are our funding streams available and applicable? Those are the things that we are continually seeking to engage on and understand. After all, communities are dynamic; needs and challenges change and opportunities will arise. My job as a minister is to ensure that the support that we put in place nationally is not static but is responsive to that.

Given the detail of your question, I hope that you will be content for us to get back to the committee in writing on that point, so that I can provide a more detailed response.

That is an excellent question. I think that town centres can perhaps be an even more vital resource in rural communities; indeed, in many cases, they provide lifeline products and services.

Ultimately, the funding that we provide to support town centres, which has been narrated throughout this session, is available to all local authorities, including rural authorities. In the draft national planning framework 4, specific policies are proposed that would be applicable to rural communities. There is therefore recognition of their situation.

However, fundamentally, the issues that we see in more densely populated areas such as the central belt are still relevant to rural communities, in the sense that we want to increase the density of population in our town centres. There is always the risk of urban edges and sprawl, which limits that compact growth. Greater population density can more realistically sustain town centres.

I will ask David Cowan to speak about the work and process of the review and how, in developing the response, we ensured that rural voices were heard and that specific rural concerns were captured.