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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 16 October 2025
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Displaying 1170 contributions

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Finance and Public Administration Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 5 March 2024

Tom Arthur

In general terms, I would say that you have touched on a very important point. With any programme of public service reform, any spend-to-save approach or any investment, what the constraining of budgets will mean for any Government—and it is one of the effects that we are still reeling from after the austerity that we have had at various points over the past 14 years—is that it will have to focus day to day on key, mission-critical tasks. Often the challenge that we have with reform is that we need to identify parallel funding to support change and transformation. That is just a general point, but all Governments have to contend with such things.

What we are seeing feeding through to next year’s budget, particularly around capital, are the consequences of decisions taken by the UK Government, which predominantly impact the discretionary fund that we have available. We are trying to manage that impact in a way that is consistent with the principles and values that the Government has articulated, in recognition of the key and central role that the NHS plays, not just in delivering public services, but as a key economic actor within the wider Scottish economy, too, and in recognition, too, of the key expectations that Parliament and indeed the public have that it be resourced adequately. That, again, has been reflected in the decisions that we have taken.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 5 March 2024

Tom Arthur

I can appreciate that there will be a range of views but, along with seeking to mitigate the risk of waste tourism, we have always wanted to provide a degree of certainty and stability for the sector as well. Furthermore, we have a clear target towards the end of 2025 and our approach on tax policy is consistent with that.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 5 March 2024

Tom Arthur

I clarify that the money is capital and has not been allocated through the spring budget revision that you refer to.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 5 March 2024

Tom Arthur

As I say, the money would be classified as capital expenditure to support the existing wide-ranging variety of work within the health portfolio. I cannot provide you with a line-by-line list of all of the various expenditure that is classed as capital expenditure within the health service.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 5 March 2024

Tom Arthur

Clearly, as I touched on earlier, we will have an exceptionally challenging set of circumstances around capital over the medium term, which the committee appreciates. Those circumstances form the context in which decisions on future capital projects—not just in the health service, but more widely—are considered.

The budget, of course, relates to the current financial year. This relates to ongoing activity that is part of the capital expenditure of the health service. I can appreciate the question about perception about money being allocated, but it is important to make the distinction between what is happening within this financial year—supporting ongoing NHS capital expenditure that covers a range of areas, which, I am sure, the committee appreciates—and what we are looking at from 2024-25 going forward, in the context of the capital constraints under which we will be operating.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 5 March 2024

Tom Arthur

I make the point on allocation and budgets that at the outset we allocate full amounts, but clearly there are developments, as the year progresses. There can be underspends, slippage or targeted savings, which can free up additional capacity. That applies to resource and capital and reflects the usual routine in-year budget management.

The challenges that we are facing were, of course, set out by the Deputy First Minister in the letter that she sent to the committee in advance of the UK autumn fiscal event. It is important to make the distinction that we are not in a situation where budgets are being set with some funding unallocated, but as we progress through the financial year, owing to the dynamics that I have referred to we will always seek to ensure, when resource or capital become available, that funding is effectively allocated to support the in-year position across public services.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 5 March 2024

Tom Arthur

There have certainly been changes from the position that we were in two years ago. Of course, the challenges persist; we have to contend with higher costs and the challenges that come with them, as a consequence of the period of high inflation that we have had. Inflation is still high, by historical standards. That presents ongoing challenges, as do the other factors that we have touched on.

We are committed to working within the limited flexibilities that we have, and to ensuring that we can work constructively and collaboratively to deliver capital projects. However, we have to set out very clearly the challenges that we are facing and their consequences for the delivery timescales of various projects.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 5 March 2024

Tom Arthur

As part of the progress that we are making towards the fiscal framework, there are things to do with baselining, for example, that reflect the opportunity that we have through that direct relationship between the Scottish Government and local government.

Of course, as has been touched on, the broader context in which we operate is determined by the UK Government. I know that issues such as multiyear funding settlements are routinely raised by committees and members across Parliament, but, again, the challenges that we face will ultimately come down to decisions taken by the UK Government. We have been through what has been, economically and fiscally, a quite volatile period, but in the context of a politically quite volatile period for the UK Parliament and Government, with changes of personnel at the most senior levels. Again, that creates challenges, and there will always have to be a degree of realism about what can actually be achieved.

It is important to remember that, notwithstanding the Scottish Government’s aspirations around Scotland’s constitutional future, ours is ultimately a devolved Government within the United Kingdom, and the decisions taken by the UK Government will be predominant in the context within which we operate. Any of the work that we seek to carry out as part of our relationship with local government, and indeed with other partners, must always be cognisant of that context within which we operate. The level of discretion and autonomy that is available to an independent state is not available to the Scottish Government as a devolved Administration. That is not a political point—I am just stating the facts of the matter.

I come back to the earlier point that improving the way in which decisions are taken within the United Kingdom, the amount of information that is provided and the timelines would be in the interests of the Scottish Government and, indeed, our counterpart devolved Administrations.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 5 March 2024

Tom Arthur

Let me take that away and speak to pensions officials about it, because I do not want to give you an off-the-cuff answer. I would rather consider it in more detail. If you are happy for me to do it, I will speak to pensions officials, write back to you directly and copy the committee into that correspondence.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 5 March 2024

Tom Arthur

Indeed.