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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 21 August 2025
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Displaying 775 contributions

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COVID-19 Recovery Committee

Vaccination Certification

Meeting date: 30 September 2021

Brian Whittle

The Scottish Government has said that the main driver for introducing the vaccination passport scheme is to encourage those who have not been vaccinated to get vaccinated. As we heard in last week’s evidence and as Professor Reicher’s evidence has highlighted, one of the key issues is the reluctance of certain groups to get the vaccine. In that regard, a big driver is ethnicity—I am thinking especially of our Polish and African communities—and another is living in areas of deprivation. If we are saying that people need to be vaccinated to get into nightclubs or football matches, I would suggest that the people in those groups are unlikely to be participants in those activities. Will the way in which the vaccination passport is being introduced help those groups do what the Scottish Government wants them to do, which is to get vaccinated? I will ask Professor Drury to respond first, given that he has not spoken to me yet.

COVID-19 Recovery Committee

Vaccination Certification

Meeting date: 30 September 2021

Brian Whittle

Given that, as has been highlighted, there are specific pockets of our population that are less likely to be vaccinated, what should we do to encourage vaccination uptake?

COVID-19 Recovery Committee

Ministerial Statement

Meeting date: 30 September 2021

Brian Whittle

This morning, we have heard that one of the key successes of vaccination passports will be community engagement, but we heard from the Deputy First Minister three weeks ago that there was no public or business consultation prior to declaring the intention to implement the vaccination passport, because you did not want it to become public knowledge that you were considering it. How did the Scottish Government gather the evidence on the potential effectiveness of the vaccination passport?

COVID-19 Recovery Committee

Ministerial Statement

Meeting date: 30 September 2021

Brian Whittle

I would love to take this to appeal but, unfortunately, we do not have time, so I will step back.

COVID-19 Recovery Committee

Ministerial Statement

Meeting date: 30 September 2021

Brian Whittle

This morning, we heard that France, for example, does not just use vaccination passports; evidence of previous infection is also taken. It was suggested that, when making comparisons with schemes in other countries, we have to be careful how we utilise the data because it will be specific to the country. Even the Government’s evidence paper says that the impact in Israel is unclear.

The committee has heard evidence, which was alluded to by Jim Fairlie, that one of the main barriers to increasing vaccine uptake, which is what vaccination passports are being introduced to do, relates to ethnic minorities, especially our Polish and African communities, and areas of deprivation. Where is the evidence that suggests that the introduction of vaccination passports will have a positive impact on those communities, which are the hardest to reach?

COVID-19 Recovery Committee

Ministerial Statement

Meeting date: 30 September 2021

Brian Whittle

The point that I am trying to make is that the Government uses the percentage of the population that is vaccinated. However, when we drill down into the figures, we find that there are high levels of vaccination among the indigenous population of Scotland—perhaps higher than we would have expected at the start—but that there are pockets in our communities in which vaccination levels are not high. My problem is that I am not convinced that you have the evidence to suggest that using vaccination passports for nightclubs or football matches will impact the people who require our attention the most. I agree that community engagement is really important, but vaccination passports will not impact those communities to the extent that you want.

COVID-19 Recovery Committee

Ministerial Statement

Meeting date: 30 September 2021

Brian Whittle

To be fair, cabinet secretary, you probably will not find over-70s from the African community in nightclubs, either, but their vaccination rate is 20 per cent lower than the average. We are not going to have a meeting of minds. I do not believe that you had the evidence that you suggested you had three weeks ago. You are backfilling that evidence now to establish the need for vaccination passports. That is the point that I am making.

COVID-19 Recovery Committee

Ministerial Statement and Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 23 September 2021

Brian Whittle

I have a quick follow-up question. A key element of COP26 will be the fringe events, at which delegates might interact with those who are not delegates and therefore might not have gone through that stringent testing procedure. What consideration has the Government given to putting in place safety protocols in that respect?

COVID-19 Recovery Committee

Vaccination Certification

Meeting date: 23 September 2021

Brian Whittle

In a similar vein, the Scottish Government has told us that, in essence, vaccination passports are being introduced to drive people’s behaviour towards getting vaccinated. However, the hospitality sector has indicated an inequality in that respect. It is concerned that if venues offer similar services but have a different designation, the public will be driven away from places that require a vaccination passport and towards those that do not.

I will ask Mr Gowans to comment on that first, given that he was last to respond to my previous question.

COVID-19 Recovery Committee

Vaccination Certification

Meeting date: 23 September 2021

Brian Whittle

I will start by reiterating the concern that there has been a lack of meaningful consultation prior to the decision to implement the scheme. Witnesses have also talked about the case having yet to be demonstrated in the public domain. My concern, of course, is that the evidence does not actually exist.

Looking through some of the papers, I note that one of the biggest disparities in vaccination uptake relates to ethnicity, and that there is significantly less uptake among the black, Asian and minority ethnic community than there is among majority of our population. Do you think that that has been taken into consideration? Will the vaccination passport tackle the concern about ethnicity? My view is that the Government’s plan to increase vaccination uptake will likely incentivise only those who frequent the likes of nightclubs and football stadiums, and that it will continue to drive that inequality in our society. I ask Professor Montgomery to start on that.