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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 19 December 2025
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Displaying 6917 contributions

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Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Hunting with Dogs (Scotland) Bill

Meeting date: 23 November 2022

Finlay Carson

There is certainly an issue about forming a pack. That was one of the descriptions that we heard from the bill team last week. In your opinion, what would it mean to form a pack?

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Hunting with Dogs (Scotland) Bill

Meeting date: 23 November 2022

Finlay Carson

Okay. Ross Ewing wants to comment. I will then bring in Robbie Marsland and Jim Fairlie.

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Hunting with Dogs (Scotland) Bill

Meeting date: 23 November 2022

Finlay Carson

I will bring in Jim Fairlie and then Rachael Hamilton, who has a supplementary question.

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Hunting with Dogs (Scotland) Bill

Meeting date: 23 November 2022

Finlay Carson

A number of people have their hands up. I will try to bring everyone in in order. Jim Fairlie has indicated that he is content for the moment, so I will bring in Alasdair Allan next, to be followed by Mercedes Villalba and Jake Swindells.

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Hunting with Dogs (Scotland) Bill

Meeting date: 23 November 2022

Finlay Carson

Now that we have heard additional evidence on rough shooting, do you think that the inclusion of rabbits in the definition and the implications of that for rough shooting were not thought through enough by the Government, and that that is why we are sitting around this table? Are further amendments needed to make your job easier?

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Hunting with Dogs (Scotland) Bill

Meeting date: 23 November 2022

Finlay Carson

I have to say that that is slightly different from what we heard last week. Let me offer a scenario—and I will bring in Jim Fairlie afterwards, as he has another scenario in mind.

Two people, each with two dogs, are out on a walk with me on a rough shoot, but I am the only person with a gun. The four dogs go in. They act separately, because they are Labradors, and they hunt in undergrowth. They are all laid out; in effect, they are working together, but they are not covering the same area. The four dogs flush a rabbit and I shoot it.

I am not in control of those dogs, but the bill’s wording is “using a dog”, and the dogs were used to flush to me. As four dogs were involved, I am breaking the law. I have a gun, but in that instance, I am not in control of the dogs that are flushing. Those four dogs are working the game—the rabbit—towards me. That is a grey area.

10:00  

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Hunting with Dogs (Scotland) Bill

Meeting date: 23 November 2022

Finlay Carson

I am quite sure that Mike Flynn is more than capable of indicating if he wishes to speak. I appreciate your intervening, but I will bring him in if he has a comment to make. Mike, do you wish to comment?

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Hunting with Dogs (Scotland) Bill

Meeting date: 23 November 2022

Finlay Carson

Okay—

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Hunting with Dogs (Scotland) Bill

Meeting date: 23 November 2022

Finlay Carson

Okay. I will bring in Jake Swindells.

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Hunting with Dogs (Scotland) Bill

Meeting date: 23 November 2022

Finlay Carson

The bill is about providing clarity and creating a safer route for people who commit wildlife crimes to be successfully prosecuted. Everybody wants to see that—it is unacceptable for them not to be prosecuted to the full extent of the law.

However, will what is on the table at the moment protect people who legitimately take part in country sport? The bill is not here to ban country sport or pest control, for example. Does what is in the bill as it stands give you enough confidence that it will allow you to prosecute those who break those laws, or does the bill need to be substantially amended?

I will ask one final question. Should there be something in the bill about breeds? If we said that only certain breeds of dog were allowed to be used in rough shooting and so on, would that work?