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Displaying 7545 contributions
Rural Affairs and Islands Committee
Meeting date: 20 September 2023
Finlay Carson
We have heard about all that the bill could do, but there is no legislation to back up most of it. There will always be people who want to do the right thing and do not need legislation to make them do that. My concern is that what we have in front of us might create artificial legitimacy. People who have no intention of sticking to the guidelines might have documents and a nice piece of paper to say that they are a verified breeder, a bit like someone who goes to a fake university to get a diploma, which we know has happened in the past. That would give buyers misplaced confidence that the person they are buying the puppy from is legitimate, without there being any safeguards.
The bill could create an even more worrying situation in which bad breeders have some sort of legitimacy, because there will be no enforcement, checking or proper regulation. It seems to me that that could make things worse and that we should be looking at a straightforward national registration scheme in which all puppies would have tags so that, when a tag is scanned, the enforcement agencies—whether that is a local authority or the SSPCA—can see who the breeder was and can follow up any issues. That is my view. The bill has the potential to make things worse, because there would be no policing of the requirements.
Rural Affairs and Islands Committee
Meeting date: 20 September 2023
Finlay Carson
Thank you for your time this morning—it has been hugely useful.
That concludes the public part of our meeting.
10:33 Meeting continued in private until 12:21.Rural Affairs and Islands Committee
Meeting date: 20 September 2023
Finlay Carson
Since members have no further questions, would any of our witnesses like to make a comment?
Rural Affairs and Islands Committee
Meeting date: 20 September 2023
Finlay Carson
The people who are likely to have a certificate are those who are already aware and who want to do the right thing, so it does not address the issue. If you want to sell puppies out of the back of a car, the certificate makes no difference—it is a valueless piece of paper. It is just an extra hoop for people to jump through and I do not know how it will incentivise those who are not minded to follow the code.
You touched on chipping, which is a legal obligation. Do we have any idea how many people chip their dogs and how many do not? Is that policed in any way? Does the SSPCA carry out random chip checks? That is already in legislation. It is also a physical thing—you can tell whether a dog has a chip—but the stuff that we are looking at now is not like that. For example, how can you check that someone has seen the bitch? How can you ensure that someone is conscious of the cost of keeping a dog? It is all very intangible, whereas chipping is a tangible thing. Do we have any idea whether people are abiding by that, given that there is no national database?
Rural Affairs and Islands Committee
Meeting date: 20 September 2023
Finlay Carson
Thank you. That is helpful.
We will explore the code of practice in more detail, but, before we move on, I want to ask about one thing that I am uncertain about. Will the bill deliver more than what we have at the moment? It appears that the only obligation on the Government as the bill stands is to create a code. The Government can create a code of practice at the moment but has chosen not to do that. The bill would force the Government to do that but, as with everything else in the bill, it says that the Government “may” legislate or do something. Does the bill go far enough to ensure that all the concerns that we have just heard are addressed legally?
Rural Affairs and Islands Committee
Meeting date: 20 September 2023
Finlay Carson
That takes us quite nicely to the subject of certificates, with questions from Kate Forbes.
Rural Affairs and Islands Committee
Meeting date: 20 September 2023
Finlay Carson
Without traceability, none of the things that we are talking about will be effective. Could the argument be made that what we need is simply a mandatory registration scheme for puppies to be microchipped? That would provide full traceability with all the required information, including the name of the breeder, where the dogs were bred and where they have been housed. Would that not just circumnavigate the bill, which does not place any requirements on the Government at all? We would go back to the good old days, if you like, when we had dog licences, but that dog licence scheme could be on a nationwide database to allow better checks and better scrutiny of breeders—whether they were puppy farmers, if you like, breeding multiple times or had small-scale unregistered litters, as at the moment. Would that not be a solution, rather than all these little bits in another bill? Are there any comments?
Rural Affairs and Islands Committee
Meeting date: 20 September 2023
Finlay Carson
I will bring in Holly Conway and then Jamie Halcro Johnston, who has a question that follows on from that point.
Rural Affairs and Islands Committee
Meeting date: 20 September 2023
Finlay Carson
Good morning, and welcome to the 23rd meeting in 2023 of the Rural Affairs and Islands Committee. Apologies have been received from Jim Fairlie and Rachael Hamilton. I welcome Jamie Halcro Johnston, who attends as a substitute. Before we begin, I ask Jamie Halcro Johnston to declare any relevant interests.
Rural Affairs and Islands Committee
Meeting date: 20 September 2023
Finlay Carson
Would anybody else like to come in on that?