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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 21 July 2025
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Displaying 5898 contributions

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Rural Affairs and Islands Committee

Agriculture and Rural Communities (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 29 November 2023

Finlay Carson

I call Jim Fairlie.

Rural Affairs and Islands Committee

Agriculture and Rural Communities (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 29 November 2023

Finlay Carson

That was very reassuring. I call Karen Adam.

Rural Affairs and Islands Committee

Agriculture and Rural Communities (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 29 November 2023

Finlay Carson

Finally, I will ask about the scope of the bill. You will be aware that at stage 2, I have the discretion as convener to decide whether amendments are within the scope of the bill. Part 4 of the schedule, which is on rural communities and economy, clearly states that assistance can be given to people to

“live, work or operate in rural areas, (or to assist or encourage others to do so)”.

That schedule also refers to assisting a person to start a business. The criteria for that is that the business is

“relating to agriculture”

or

“otherwise, in or for a rural area or community.”

As you can see, that part is very wide, and it uses the words “to live”, which would suggest housing. There is no limit to the scope of part 4 of the schedule—it is incredibly wide. There are no parameters in the bill that would constrain amendments being lodged regarding any development—economic or social—in rural areas. What are your comments on that?

Rural Affairs and Islands Committee

Agriculture and Rural Communities (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 29 November 2023

Finlay Carson

Thank you very much. I wanted that on record.

Thank you for your participation in the session, which has been hugely helpful. That concludes business for today.

Meeting closed at 11:13.  

Rural Affairs and Islands Committee

Agriculture and Rural Communities (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 29 November 2023

Finlay Carson

I have a question on the back of that. The section on CPD is quite extensive. Why have such an extensive policy on continuing professional development if, ultimately, you will not use it as a stick to withhold payments in certain schemes if CPD is not undertaken? Given that, at the moment, there is no detail on how penalties might be applied, is it reasonable for the Parliament to pass powers that might mean that, in the future, people might have to have a green card-style qualification in order to farm and draw down payments?

Rural Affairs and Islands Committee

Agriculture and Rural Communities (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 29 November 2023

Finlay Carson

Good morning and welcome to the 31st meeting of the Rural Affairs and Islands Committee in 2023. Before we begin, I remind all those using electronic devices to switch them to silent.

We have scheduled approximately two hours for today’s evidence session with the Scottish Government’s bill team. I welcome Andrew Crawley, the rural affairs lead; John Kerr, head of agriculture policy; James Muldoon, head of the agriculture support policy development unit; and Ewen Scott, the bill team leader.

I will kick off with a straightforward question. What is the rationale for producing a framework bill?

Rural Affairs and Islands Committee

Agriculture and Rural Communities (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 29 November 2023

Finlay Carson

Committee members want to scrutinise the bill as much as possible, but we are limited because most of the detail will come in secondary legislation. What are the timescales for that secondary legislation? What role should the Parliament have in scrutinising it?

Rural Affairs and Islands Committee

Agriculture and Rural Communities (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 29 November 2023

Finlay Carson

Some people would suggest that those instruments are coming a bit late and that a lot of people are still waiting. There is still a lot of uncertainty. There will be a long wait until 2025 to get clarity on the future direction of travel.

Rural Affairs and Islands Committee

Agriculture and Rural Communities (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 29 November 2023

Finlay Carson

Before we move on to the next theme, I will make a point about the framework bill that we have been discussing. From your responses to questions on the four objectives, it appears that the bill has boundless scope—there are no limits to it—which I suggest would lead to complete lack of certainty about what it could deliver.

The Scottish Government has known since 2016 that we would have to have a replacement for the common agricultural policy. The transition period finished in 2020. The framework bill could therefore have been in place three years ago, but you say that we are introducing it only now so that you have time to develop secondary legislation to deliver on the policies. From what the committee understands, the industry finds that to be completely unacceptable. Why do we have a bill that will not put any meat on the bones until 2025, when that could have been done earlier? Is there any limit to the scope of the bill?

Rural Affairs and Islands Committee

Agriculture and Rural Communities (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 29 November 2023

Finlay Carson

I know what you are saying, but in some countries—France, for example—if you produce 50 acres of carrots, whoever buys that 50 acres also has to take responsibility for the 20 per cent of the crop that might be considered not to be high quality. However, there is nothing in the bill that would address that.

You are talking about high-quality produce. One of the issues in the supply chain is that when a farmer has, for example, 50 acres of carrots of which only 60 per cent can be considered to be high quality, supermarkets and retailers will take only the high-quality product. There is nothing in the bill that would help to level that out. In other countries, there are regulations about responsibility for production—not just production of the high-quality food. That situation is often a barrier to farmers getting the right price—a sustainable and reliable price—but nothing in the bill would address that.