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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 4 July 2025
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Displaying 1957 contributions

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Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Hunting with Dogs (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 29 June 2022

Rachael Hamilton

Okay—that is fantastic.

Convener, do you want me to conclude my questions in one go rather than coming back in later? My next question is relevant.

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Hunting with Dogs (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 29 June 2022

Rachael Hamilton

I have managed to get some words down to help us both understand what I am trying to say about sections 7 and 8 on exceptions before we leave this particular area.

The section 7 exemption and the consequential section 8 licence for environmental benefit are limited to where the activity is part of a scheme. I would like to know what constitutes a scheme for those purposes and why that limitation has been included. Land managers manage foxes for a variety of purposes, including to protect vulnerable species. Would that activity count as a scheme?

11:00  

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Hunting with Dogs (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 29 June 2022

Rachael Hamilton

I asked Police Scotland about deprivation orders and the seizing of vehicles, horses and quad bikes. That also speaks to my point about financial resources for Police Scotland. They do not have facilities for keeping hounds. They have dog kennels, but they cannot keep horses. I do not think that we are talking about many quad bikes, but it is important for the minister to recognise that there could be financial implications.

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Hunting with Dogs (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 29 June 2022

Rachael Hamilton

I do not have the financial memorandum in front of me, but I am sure that it says that the bill does not create any additional resource implications for bodies or stakeholders.

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Hunting with Dogs (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 29 June 2022

Rachael Hamilton

We will check on that.

I go back to the point about consultation, because it is important to get feedback from stakeholders and practitioners. In the evidence that we have heard, a number of witnesses from the rural sector said that they are part of a working group of rural stakeholders. Have you had the opportunity to meet the group and hear about how those people who represent land managers and farmers can be part of the process?

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Hunting with Dogs (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 29 June 2022

Rachael Hamilton

Yes, but how can you prove that animal welfare can be improved by using dogs to flush one animal for an environmental reason or a predation reason?

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Hunting with Dogs (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 29 June 2022

Rachael Hamilton

I am just very concerned. My gut instinct is that we should have had a separate piece of legislation on hare coursing. As somebody who has been a witness to it, with people getting away, I feel very passionately about the fact that they are not being caught. Police Scotland talked about that last week. We are taking other activities in the countryside that are very acceptable rural pursuits, bringing hare coursing into that and trying to make a system work that can ensure that we prosecute more of the people who do that awful thing but are not getting caught. Wrapping it all together means that there is a very difficult line to tread.

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Hunting with Dogs (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 29 June 2022

Rachael Hamilton

Are you considering the possibility of allowing an appeal process?

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Hunting with Dogs (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 29 June 2022

Rachael Hamilton

I am. I did not want to go into licensing, convener, because it will come up later. I did not want to take somebody else’s questions. The issue could be developed in those questions.

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Hunting with Dogs (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 29 June 2022

Rachael Hamilton

Before I ask my questions, I want to respond to Edward Mountain’s point by putting on record the fact that, in his review, Lord Bonomy—who has been quoted a lot today—concluded that restricting the number of dogs

“could seriously compromise effective pest control in the country”.

The minister’s response to the convener indicated the resource that might be needed to determine the number of dogs that would be covered by a licence. We have talked about licences a lot today. The issue is an important one, because we need to get this right. There has been a cut of £700,000 to NatureScot’s budget. Given all the evidential requirements that you have just listed, will NatureScot be able to do its job across Scotland, from north to south and east to west?

11:30