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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 9 November 2025
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Displaying 1978 contributions

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Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 22 November 2022

Rachael Hamilton

Thank you, convener. I am really grateful to be let in.

I want to go back to the points that Pauline McNeill and I made earlier. Cabinet secretary, are you able to set out for the committee the content of the argument that the Scottish Government made in court two weeks ago? What did you go to court to argue? I am sure that you are not protected by legal constraints on that.

My other question relates to the concerns expressed by Brian Whittle and others about the interaction of the GRC with the Equality Act 2010. Does the Scottish Government think that women’s rights to manage their boundaries around the opposite sex matter?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 22 November 2022

Rachael Hamilton

Cabinet secretary, will you please accept that obtaining a GRC through a self-identification process will somewhat change the section 22 privacy protections, because it will be made available to a wider and more diverse group? That probably brings us back to Pam Duncan-Glancy’s amendments and the legal challenges that would come because of them.

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 22 November 2022

Rachael Hamilton

On that basis, would you consider defining “living in an acquired gender”?

09:30  

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 22 November 2022

Rachael Hamilton

That is with regards to gender representation on public boards, which is a devolved matter. What is the EHRC’s view on other aspects that are reserved?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 22 November 2022

Rachael Hamilton

The point is—

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 22 November 2022

Rachael Hamilton

I understand that—that is already covered in the protections.

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 22 November 2022

Rachael Hamilton

We are all looking at different aspects in this group of amendments. What if the cabinet secretary were to advise that the Government could lodge a catch-all amendment that brought together all these elements with regard to data collection and the reviewing of this particular reform?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 22 November 2022

Rachael Hamilton

Even a tiny number can be impactful in certain circumstances. It is therefore important that we do not put a number on things, because that number—even if it is one—could have significant and severe unintended consequences.

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 22 November 2022

Rachael Hamilton

During the progress of the bill, there has been much discussion about the relationship between GRCs and healthcare. It is unrealistic to assume that some—perhaps many—of those who receive a GRC will not see that as relevant to what they are entitled to from NHS Scotland. I very much welcome Sarah Boyack’s comments and amendments, but my amendment 140 is slightly different, because, currently, no provision in the bill recognises that likelihood or the potential impact on healthcare for trans people. Amendment 140 seeks to do that. Specifically, we call on the Scottish ministers to conduct a review into whether a bespoke healthcare pathway needs to be created for those who apply for a GRC; whether any healthcare issues have arisen in the experience of people who have applied for a GRC; and what further steps could be taken to improve healthcare for trans people.

Amendment 140 could help to address the important issues that Sarah Boyack talked about, such as the long waiting times, which, should the process of obtaining a GRC become easier and be expanded to include a larger segment of the population, can reasonably be expected to increase. Sadly, that is a part of the reform of the legislation that the Scottish National Party has turned a blind eye to.

I accept that there might be other ways of recognising that point. I am open to any proposals from the cabinet secretary for approaching it differently. However, we should not legislate then walk away without making some provision for the potential impact in demands for health services that are already creaking at the seams.

We believe that the publication of the Cass review will offer important insights on improving healthcare for younger trans people, which is why we originally called for the bill to be delayed. We know that it is naive to assume that there will be no spillover effects in demands for healthcare from a greater increase in the number of GRCs. Although the SNP cannot make a silk purse from a sow’s ear, I urge the cabinet secretary to support or at least consider my amendment.

10:00  

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 22 November 2022

Rachael Hamilton

I would like some clarity on the relevance of a GRC under the Equality Act 2010. Does the cabinet secretary believe that a GRC is relevant or irrelevant under that act? Two weeks ago, the Scottish Government argued in court that a GRC changes someone’s sex under the 2010 act. Can she explain that?