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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 21 June 2025
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Displaying 1492 contributions

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Education, Children and Young People Committee

Scottish Languages Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 11 December 2024

Ross Greer

On amendment 67, and touching on some of the issues that we have looked at so far, would the reporting requirements be better placed against the national strategy, rather than against the bill—or what would then be the act—given that the Parliament has a role in deciding what it does and does not want to do post-legislative scrutiny on? The strategy should, I hope, include much more in the way of specific actions whose impact we are trying to measure.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Scottish Languages Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 11 December 2024

Ross Greer

On Michael Marra’s amendment 32, can you clarify the Government’s expected timescale? Is within a year of royal assent too soon? Is it realistic to make it within a year of enactment? Do you have an indicative timescale at this point?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Scottish Languages Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 11 December 2024

Ross Greer

I should clarify at the outset that these amendments are relevant only when a report has been produced that concludes that a public body has failed in its duties under the bill—or the act, as it will be—and the Scottish Government agrees with that report. I think—I hope—that such circumstances would be incredibly limited; nevertheless, they would be serious. After all, when Parliament passes law, we expect public bodies to align with and fulfil their duties under it.

Although I hope that such an occurrence will be very rare, I think it appropriate to have the amendments to cover circumstances in which a report is produced that concludes that a public body has failed in its duties, and the Government agrees. The amendments would simply clarify that the Government must direct the organisation in question to implement the measures that were included in its plan by a certain date. Giving such organisations a timescale would be important to ensuring that the duties were fulfilled; the fact is that such duties will be put on bodies only if Parliament has agreed to them, which means that they will have legitimacy and the weight of law behind them. The timescale is also important to give the community confidence that the Government is committed to taking effective action to ensure that what has been campaigned for, and what has been agreed by Parliament, is fulfilled.

That is what amendment 51 does, while amendment 52 simply cleans up section 9.

I move amendment 51.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Scottish Languages Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 11 December 2024

Ross Greer

The question was on whether parents of pre-school children could be included, given that—as Miles Briggs pointed out—parents of children who are already in school often have to campaign for so long that their children have left school by the time they have achieved what they were looking for.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Scottish Languages Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 11 December 2024

Ross Greer

Amendments 79 and 80 are, like the amendments that I moved earlier, proposals from the Law Society. I have explained the rationale for them in relation to transparency. The cabinet secretary has indicated the Government’s support, so I do not think that I need to add any more.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Scottish Languages Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 11 December 2024

Ross Greer

I will just echo the cabinet secretary’s remarks. It is important that there is a role for Parliament, which is why my amendment 66 says that the review would result in a report being laid before Parliament. There is strong cross-party consensus on the importance of Sabhal Mòr Ostaig and its getting to the point of having the power to award degrees. Therefore, it is important that we preserve that role for Parliament and keep the process going to that shared outcome.

As has been mentioned, my amendment and Willie Rennie’s amendment 95 have a lot of crossover, so I am certainly happy to support his. I recognise that there may be a requirement to do a little bit of reconciliation at stage 3 on the issue, but I encourage committee members to support both amendments, given that there is a clear shared desired outcome, and that we can resolve the areas of overlap with some tidying up at stage 3.

I will press amendment 66.

Amendment 66 agreed to.

Amendment 95 moved—[Willie Rennie].

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Scottish Languages Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 11 December 2024

Ross Greer

I am afraid that this is the start of quite a long run of amendments from me, but not all of my speaking notes are too long.

In this section, amendments 2, 9 to 12, 17, 19 to 25, 36, 42, 48 and 49 all simply insert the word “national” at various points in the bill. The intention is to ensure that there is absolute clarity that, when the legislation talks about the Gaelic language strategy, it is talking about the national strategy for which ministers have responsibility and which is replacing the national Gaelic language plan that exists as a result of the Gaelic Language (Scotland) Act 2005. There are lots of other documents that will be referred to as strategies, plans and so on that will be produced as a result of the bill, so the intention is to ensure that there is absolute clarity in that regard. That is the rationale behind all of those amendments, which I hope is simple and agreeable to members.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Scottish Languages Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 11 December 2024

Ross Greer

I have nothing further to add. I press amendment 51.

Amendment 51 agreed to.

Amendment 52 moved—[Ross Greer]—and agreed to.

Amendment 53 moved—[Kate Forbes]—and agreed to.

Section 9, as amended, agreed to.

After section 9

Amendment 54 moved—[Ross Greer]—and agreed to.

Amendment 55 moved—[Kate Forbes]—and agreed to.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Scottish Languages Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 11 December 2024

Ross Greer

In the conversations that I have had—albeit, they have been largely informal—no one has raised concerns with me. As it happened, the institutions that I engaged with the most turned out to be those that had Gaelic language plans, and it was perhaps more of a struggle to engage with institutions that did not have plans in place. I will be the first to admit that I have not spoken to every institution in that regard, but no concerns were raised with me about the amendment, which I lodged relatively early in the process. Certainly, no objections have been raised with me by Colleges Scotland or Universities Scotland, which I raised the matter with previously.

On amendment 68, past experience is much of the reason why we are here discussing this bill, and it is relevant to the discussions that have just taken place between Michael Marra and the cabinet secretary about the urgency of the matter. Past experience tells us that there will probably often be reluctance to fulfil the duties and that they will not be prioritised in the way that we would wish to see. Amendment 68 simply gives ministers stronger enforcement powers in that regard. They are largely replicated from the Education (Scotland) Act 1980, so they are not unprecedented. To a significant extent, the powers are copied and pasted from a set of enforcement powers that ministers already have.

Although is to be hoped that we do not get to the point of needing to use such powers, as I said, past experience indicates that their use is not unlikely. I want ministers to be able to take effective action if any public body is failing in the duties that Parliament has placed upon it. Even putting aside the content and purpose of this specific bill, I would want ministers to be able to rectify that situation. That is the rationale behind amendment 68.

I move amendment 33.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Scottish Languages Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 11 December 2024

Ross Greer

I am grateful for the debate on this group, and I am grateful to Emma Roddick for lodging amendment 34 and to Jackie Dunbar for explaining the rationale behind it.

For the sake of simplicity in relation to whether members should support amendment 34 or amendment 33, I am happy not to press amendment 33. However, I intend to move amendments 54 and 68, which the cabinet secretary supports.

Amendment 33, by agreement, withdrawn.

Amendment 34 moved—[Jackie Dunbar]—and agreed to.

Amendments 35 and 80 moved—[Ross Greer]—and agreed to.

Section 7, as amended, agreed to.

Section 8—Reporting on Gaelic language strategy, standards and duties

Amendment 36 moved and agreed to.

Amendment 37 moved—[Michael Marra].

10:15