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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 7 February 2026
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Displaying 529 contributions

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Delegated Powers and Law Reform Committee

Moveable Transactions (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 4 October 2022

Oliver Mundell

I guess that the question is whether people would be borrowing at a lower interest rate than that which they might get from an unregulated lender. If people are desperate, we would be cutting off any access at all to finance for them. I am not saying that including consumers is right, but I wonder whether the pushback would be that we would be taking away people’s only chance to borrow in a regulated market. Does that not raise a question? Someone could be desperate for money and have items that they could borrow against at a lower rate than they could get somewhere else.

I guess that, in the same way that businesses are already finding complex workarounds involving trusts and accessing other jurisdictions, the most vulnerable people in our society, who do not currently have access to regulated lending, are finding their own workarounds, too. It is just that they are not necessarily as obvious. We have no idea what they are paying in order to borrow that money. In terms of the morality question, would it be better to move that practice into the light rather than leave it unregulated altogether?

Delegated Powers and Law Reform Committee

Moveable Transactions (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 4 October 2022

Oliver Mundell

Given that we are not very good at identifying and stopping that, I guess that the question is whether it would be better to cast some sunlight on the practice so that we know what is happening.

Delegated Powers and Law Reform Committee

Moveable Transactions (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 4 October 2022

Oliver Mundell

I hear you saying both things, there. Do you think that the register will become the default over time?

Delegated Powers and Law Reform Committee

Moveable Transactions (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 4 October 2022

Oliver Mundell

On a wider point, is it important for people, and even for smaller businesses, to know to whom they owe money?

Delegated Powers and Law Reform Committee

Moveable Transactions (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 4 October 2022

Oliver Mundell

People know when that happens.

Delegated Powers and Law Reform Committee

Moveable Transactions (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 4 October 2022

Oliver Mundell

I will just leave that there.

The bill would provide for waiver of defence clauses, whereby a debtor agrees with the assignor not to raise defences to payment against the assignee. Are you aware of such clauses being used at present? Is there potential for them to be misused?

Delegated Powers and Law Reform Committee

Moveable Transactions (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 4 October 2022

Oliver Mundell

I am.

Delegated Powers and Law Reform Committee

Moveable Transactions (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 4 October 2022

Oliver Mundell

Thank you. It is helpful to have that on the record. I am not asking you to come back on this, but I think that people do pawn things that they need, because they are desperate, so I think that there is a question around what is better, but you have been very clear that you think that this is the wrong approach.

I have some other quick questions on assignation. It came up in the first session and in some of the responses that we have had. How do you feel in relation to intimation? Does how the bill is currently set out cause you concern in terms of notification in particular?

Delegated Powers and Law Reform Committee

Moveable Transactions (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 4 October 2022

Oliver Mundell

I understand that you heard bits of the previous panel’s evidence. We heard about the confusion that it causes people, such as people who are paying student rent, when they find out that the person to whom they owe money has changed. Is it a valid argument that finding out about the change can confuse people about who they have to pay and how to pay them?

Delegated Powers and Law Reform Committee

Moveable Transactions (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 4 October 2022

Oliver Mundell

What would you recommend for section 13? Should it come out of the bill altogether?