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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 22 August 2025
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Displaying 502 contributions

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Delegated Powers and Law Reform Committee

Regulation of Legal Services (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 7 November 2023

Oliver Mundell

You will recognise that it is hard for the committee, or for individual members of the committee, to come to a view on the scope of that Lord President’s consent provision, which will now run through a substantive part of the bill, without knowing how it will work in practice or what the process would look like. How would we know what discussions had taken place around that? How would stakeholders know if there were concerns about the proposals? Will the regulations be introduced to Parliament before consent is sought, or will consent be sought before the regulations come to Parliament? Will there be ministerial-level discussions with the Lord President before Parliament knows about it? How will the process actually work?

Delegated Powers and Law Reform Committee

Regulation of Legal Services (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 7 November 2023

Oliver Mundell

I do not want to be confrontational, but it appears that you are doubling down on the same strategy of making the Lord President’s consent central to the provisions. Last week, we heard from the two biggest legal stakeholders outwith the judiciary, who said that they were deeply uncomfortable with that, that it would undermine confidence in the rule of law and that the powers were too broad. Those are pretty serious concerns. They were saying that that approach would embarrass Scotland around the world and that there were concerns from the Commonwealth Lawyers Association. They did not just have light concerns.

You have come today to tell us that you are just continuing with that approach and adding in a few quite minor safeguards. That makes me concerned that the Government does not really understand the strength of feeling in the legal profession.

Delegated Powers and Law Reform Committee

Regulation of Legal Services (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 24 October 2023

Oliver Mundell

So, on balance, you are not in support of the legislation as proposed.

Delegated Powers and Law Reform Committee

Regulation of Legal Services (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 24 October 2023

Oliver Mundell

I will just put that issue to one side and ask you to step away from that position, because obviously we are focusing on the delegated powers in the bill. Do you think that, with the model that the Government has opted for, there is a problem with the specific delegated powers?

Delegated Powers and Law Reform Committee

Regulation of Legal Services (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 24 October 2023

Oliver Mundell

Thank you.

Delegated Powers and Law Reform Committee

Regulation of Legal Services (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 24 October 2023

Oliver Mundell

I want to come back on your point about the number of independent law firms. I assume that the numbers that you gave relate to big whole-service law firms.

Delegated Powers and Law Reform Committee

Regulation of Legal Services (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 24 October 2023

Oliver Mundell

I want to ask about the guarantee fund. Paragraph 6 of schedule 1 makes further provision about the guarantee fund. Commenting on the power, the Law Society noted:

“This has the potential for significant change to be made which may adversely impact ... the Fund”.

It also noted that there is

“no requirement for the Lord President’s consent”.

Will you elaborate further and give your view on the power and the consultation requirements that are associated with it?

Delegated Powers and Law Reform Committee

Regulation of Legal Services (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 24 October 2023

Oliver Mundell

I want to ask about section 46(3), which allows Scottish ministers to make, by regulations, further provision to reconcile regulatory conflicts, with the requirement again to get the Lord President’s consent before doing so. I am aware that you have questioned the need for this subsection, too, but do you have any further comments on it?

Delegated Powers and Law Reform Committee

Regulation of Legal Services (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 24 October 2023

Oliver Mundell

In which case, I will move on to ask about section 49, which I know has already been touched on, at least in passing. It provides that the Scottish ministers may establish by regulations a body with a view to it becoming a category 1 regulator and may specify

“circumstances under which the Scottish ministers may directly authorise and regulate legal businesses.”

The bill states that ministers must obtain the consent of the Lord President before making such regulations and, even then, make them only if they believe them to be necessary as a last resort.

Again, I am interested in your reflections on that delegated power and any other concerns that you have with it that have not already been stated. Do you consider that it is effectively hemmed in?

Delegated Powers and Law Reform Committee

Regulation of Legal Services (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 24 October 2023

Oliver Mundell

For absolute clarity, is there nothing that could be done to the section other than to remove it?