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Seòmar agus comataidhean

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 17 September 2025
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Displaying 1656 contributions

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Meeting of the Commission

“Quality of public audit in Scotland: Annual report 2024/25”

Meeting date: 23 June 2025

Jamie Greene

To clarify, does that mean that you no longer survey the auditors in external firms and you rely on those firms surveying their own staff?

Meeting of the Commission

Audit Scotland Annual Report and Accounts for the year to 31 March 2025 and Auditor’s Report on the Accounts

Meeting date: 23 June 2025

Jamie Greene

When this budget was approved, was that change not already known about? The budget would have been approved, based on that information at the time, yet there is still this huge variance.

Meeting of the Commission

Audit Scotland Annual Report and Accounts for the year to 31 March 2025 and Auditor’s Report on the Accounts

Meeting date: 23 June 2025

Jamie Greene

There was a 20 per cent jump in what was budgeted versus what was spent on external organisations. That is not within the margin of small error; it is a huge variance.

One aspect missing from the table, on which perhaps other members will comment, concerns the IT issues that we have discussed previously. We have had long conversations about your big plans for upgrades and investments, but I struggled to find those reflected in the budget spend for last year. Is that because you have not spent the money, but the work is coming down the line and we will be hit with a big ask next year, or is that spend in there? I heard what you said about laptops and cybersecurity issues. By the way, I am all for spending money on cybersecurity—and I am sure that the laptops are lovely—but given what we talked about at previous meetings I was expecting to see lines on major software or infrastructure IT upgrades that would propel you into the future.

Meeting of the Commission

“Quality of public audit in Scotland: Annual report 2024/25”

Meeting date: 23 June 2025

Jamie Greene

Where would I find information on internal Audit Scotland staff? What level of surveying has been done there? How useful or reliable is the data on their happiness or contentedness with what they are given to allow them to do their jobs?

Meeting of the Commission

“Quality of public audit in Scotland: Annual report 2024/25”

Meeting date: 23 June 2025

Jamie Greene

There is a debate as to why not. It is a competitive working environment and other companies may offer different working practices that are more favourable to people, so you have to stay competitive, I guess.

I am happy to leave it there. I may have other questions on the audit quality later.

Meeting of the Commission

“Quality of public audit in Scotland: Annual report 2024/25”

Meeting date: 23 June 2025

Jamie Greene

If I recall correctly, previous reports on the quality of public audit provided more information on audit inputs from your auditors, including internal auditors and external audit partners. Reports also included useful information from auditors who were surveyed for their opinions on, for example, whether they felt that they were able to carry out a high-quality audit, whether they had all the resources that were necessary to allow them to do their job and whether they were given the appropriate time, training and development to do so. It was quite helpful information, but it has not been included in this year’s report. Why not?

Meeting of the Commission

Audit Scotland Annual Report and Accounts for the year to 31 March 2025 and Auditor’s Report on the Accounts

Meeting date: 23 June 2025

Jamie Greene

The added element of risk for you is that not only do you hold your own organisation’s data but you deal with large amounts of data from other public sector organisations. Presumably, some of that data is quite sensitive. Will you give us an idea of the scale of the issue? How frequently do such attacks happen?

11:00  

Meeting of the Commission

Audit Scotland Annual Report and Accounts for the year to 31 March 2025 and Auditor’s Report on the Accounts

Meeting date: 23 June 2025

Jamie Greene

Thank you. I am sure plenty of people would argue about the security of having data in the cloud versus holding it on hard drives in your own office, but that may be a discussion for another day. Thank you, chair.

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

“NHS in Scotland: Spotlight on governance”

Meeting date: 11 June 2025

Jamie Greene

Good morning to our guests. Auditor General, you talked a bit about Government intervention or escalation. There are 14 territorial NHS boards. The intervention levels range from stage 1 to stage 5—stage 1 is the most hands-off and involves the least intervention, and stage 5 is the highest level. I understand that nine of the 14 boards have been elevated to an intervention level of stage 3 or stage 4—eight are at stage 3 and one is at stage 4. Does that surprise or concern you?

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

“NHS in Scotland: Spotlight on governance”

Meeting date: 11 June 2025

Jamie Greene

One of my colleagues is going to delve into that issue a little bit more, so I will park it and let others come back to the blueprint for good governance.

I want to come back to the issue of oversight. Auditor General, you said in your opening comment that NHS boards in Scotland are certainly not undergoverned. Does that imply that they are overgoverned? I will maybe pose a simpler question: is there a piece of work that could be done to see whether we need 14 NHS boards in Scotland? We are a country of 5.5 million people, but we have 22 different authorities managing the health service.

I am sure that most members of the public would not know the difference between NHS Scotland and Public Health Scotland if you were to ask them in the street. The point is that some of the issues that have come up and some of the escalation problems have clearly arisen from issues of leadership and governance, yet we have 14 chief executives, 14 boards, 14 board chairs and a raft of leadership positions in each board, presumably costing huge amounts of money. Do we simply have too many NHS boards?