The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.
All Official Reports of meetings in the Debating Chamber of the Scottish Parliament.
All Official Reports of public meetings of committees.
Displaying 2092 contributions
Public Audit Committee [Draft]
Meeting date: 14 May 2025
Jamie Greene
We might equally look at what is happening in the dental sector. That is effectively a private sector, albeit that the NHS is free at the point of use, so we do not have a privatised health service in Scotland—I am sure that the Government would be quite keen to stress that. The reality is that a lot of the services are provided through private contracts so, in other words, they are privatised in some way, shape or form.
Do you think that there is just no political appetite for any sort of sweeping reforms? If we sought to bring the whole of primary care into NHS boards under a single budget, do you think that there would be so much pushback from GPs that the change would never be able to happen? If the Government could not introduce such a sweeping change, does it mean that the system will never change? All that will happen is that GPs will ask for more money to deal with the increased demand.
Public Audit Committee [Draft]
Meeting date: 7 May 2025
Jamie Greene
No, that was helpful—thank you.
The point that I will go on to make in my line of questioning is that many issues that are categorised as additional support needs are non-educational. They might be related to health or wider society, or they might be domestic or related to substance abuse, family or bereavement. Teachers can do nothing or very little about many of those things, in the sense that what happens inside the classroom will not affect what happens outside the classroom.
Is that a scenario in which you will never be able to crack the nut? Given that so many other public agencies and bodies are involved in tackling those wider societal issues that are resulting in poor outcomes for young people, what happens in the classroom will never be able to fix that.
Public Audit Committee [Draft]
Meeting date: 7 May 2025
Jamie Greene
You said that there is more that “we” need to do—who is the “we”? If we work on the assumption that teachers and pupil support assistants are working flat out and are doing their very best—they are at capacity, in the sense that there is nothing more that they could do to help to get it right for every child—where does the gap lie? Where is the missing link?
Public Audit Committee [Draft]
Meeting date: 7 May 2025
Jamie Greene
Convener, I am sure that a good follow-up to this evidence session would be to hear from teaching unions in response to some of the evidence that we have heard. Perhaps we could think about that.
Public Audit Committee [Draft]
Meeting date: 7 May 2025
Jamie Greene
So, a small proportion of schools have a separate, dedicated provision, rather than mainstreaming additional support for learning assistance.
Public Audit Committee [Draft]
Meeting date: 7 May 2025
Jamie Greene
Does every secondary school in Scotland have someone who supports children with their mental health? Is there a qualified, dedicated mental health support contact—not a teacher—in every secondary school in Scotland?
Public Audit Committee [Draft]
Meeting date: 7 May 2025
Jamie Greene
That is very helpful. Laura, did you want to come in?
Public Audit Committee [Draft]
Meeting date: 7 May 2025
Jamie Greene
Yes. The Morgan review picked up on that—it said that other vocational destinations should be seen as positive outcomes as well when measuring like for like. That is a very good point.
Mr Rennick, your department covers education and justice, I believe.
Public Audit Committee [Draft]
Meeting date: 7 May 2025
Jamie Greene
Is that not an interesting point? I am looking at the table that Mr Beattie provided, which relates to just one council. I appreciate that every council will have different pressure points, but young people who have a social, emotional or behavioural difficulty make up the largest group in the ASL category. One can only assume that the steady rise in that percentage in the past five to 10 years—it is probably a long-term trend—has taken place because, when there is a decline in discipline outside the school environment, in the home environment in particular, that behaviour translates into the school environment.
Pupils who are experiencing wider societal or emotional difficulties in the home environment or in social environments are bringing that into the classroom. There is only so much that a teacher can do in that respect. If public agencies or touch points of public services are letting those families down, are we not fighting a losing battle in the education environment? That is the point that I am trying to make.
Public Audit Committee [Draft]
Meeting date: 7 May 2025
Jamie Greene
Members of the Scottish Parliament often do school visits. Sometimes, we get asked to host a class for an hour or two, which, I find, is usually to give the teacher a break. When we observe classrooms across our various regions and constituencies, it is interesting that a proportion of pupils in them are clearly disruptive. When teachers have to deal with that, it is to the detriment of the learning of those pupils who want to get on or are particularly gifted in certain subject areas. That can be observed even in passing on short visits to classrooms, and I presume that that is a mainstream issue.
How much work has the Government done to look at the negative effect that the presumption of mainstreaming is having on exceptional pupils or pupils who are categorised as being “more able”?