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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 30 April 2025
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Displaying 1514 contributions

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Public Audit Committee [Draft]

“Sustainable transport: Reducing car use”

Meeting date: 23 April 2025

Jamie Greene

I understand that things have been challenging, and I am not particularly asking you to get into direct conflict with the Auditor General, but he has stated in black and white at the opening of this report, which is the subject of today’s session, some very clear criticisms of the Scottish Government. I guess that that is what we are looking at.

Obviously, the target is going to be revised. I do not want to say that it is going to be ditched—indeed, you can use whatever language you prefer—but, clearly, the 20 per cent target will no longer exist at some point this year. What are the reasons for changing it? I guess that this is a bit of a multiple-choice question. Is the target being changed because you were not going to meet it and it is therefore easier for it not to exist, which would make for a better news story? Is it because the target was the wrong one in the first place? Is it because the metrics that were being used were incorrect or not appropriate? Is it because you do not need to meet the target, because you are going to hit other emissions reduction targets instead? Or is it none of the above?

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

“Sustainable transport: Reducing car use”

Meeting date: 23 April 2025

Jamie Greene

Why is there no data for 2023 or 2024?

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

“Sustainable transport: Reducing car use”

Meeting date: 23 April 2025

Jamie Greene

Glasgow and Edinburgh are the two most inhabited council areas and are also, I presume, the source of a great deal of the emissions. Is focusing on those cities the correct approach, or is it the case that everyone has to carry their share of the burden? I suspect that the approach that Glasgow and Edinburgh want to take will be different from the approach that places such as the Borders, Aberdeen, the Highlands and Inverclyde want to take. Everyone has different needs in those various demographic environments. How do we marry that up?

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

“Sustainable transport: Reducing car use”

Meeting date: 23 April 2025

Jamie Greene

It absolutely is.

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

“Sustainable transport: Reducing car use”

Meeting date: 23 April 2025

Jamie Greene

And what percentage of that 39 per cent concerns combustion engines, which are bad for the environment?

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

“Sustainable transport: Reducing car use”

Meeting date: 23 April 2025

Jamie Greene

Do you mean the discussions about the regulatory environment that the councils will operate in?

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

“Sustainable transport: Reducing car use”

Meeting date: 23 April 2025

Jamie Greene

That raises an interesting point that the committee has explored before. If the target is solely about the number of miles or kilometres that people drive but not what they are driving in, it is meaningless. If everyone drove an environmentally friendly electric or carbon-neutral vehicle—I acknowledge that that is not necessarily always possible—the number of kilometres or miles driven would not marry up to the emissions targets. Surely, the ambition should be to get people out of combustion-engine vehicles and into cleaner, greener and safer vehicles.

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

“Sustainable transport: Reducing car use”

Meeting date: 23 April 2025

Jamie Greene

That brings me to my last area of questioning. As national and local government move forward with their ambitions to reduce emissions, improve people’s health and improve active travel, how do we ensure that that is not done at the expense of people who have no other choice? We all know that public transport is not universally accessible and that the service has been reducing in many areas, particularly in small towns, rural areas and island communities, where it is incredibly difficult to get around by public transport. I think that we have to accept that. There are a number of groups of people who will be directly affected by additional measures to reduce car usage, particularly the disabled, public sector workers, people who work in the night-time economy and small businesses—people who have no choice. Those people have very valid concerns about what has been happening over the past few years, and they might be concerned about what they have heard this morning about further measures that might be introduced. How do we alleviate those concerns? How do we say to them that we have to drive forward the net zero ambition but not at the expense of the economy or people’s personal lives?

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

“Sustainable transport: Reducing car use”

Meeting date: 23 April 2025

Jamie Greene

I just want to check timings, convener. How long can I go on for? I have tonnes of questions, but I do not want to go over time.

Public Audit Committee [Draft]

“Sustainable transport: Reducing car use”

Meeting date: 23 April 2025

Jamie Greene

Apologies for going on about this, but I do not want anyone to be confused. To be clear, you are saying that, of all Scotland’s emissions, 39 per cent are transport related and that, of the transport-related emissions, 39 per cent—coincidentally—are caused by domestic cars.