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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 7 May 2025
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Displaying 1514 contributions

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Criminal Justice Committee

Fireworks and Pyrotechnic Articles (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 30 March 2022

Jamie Greene

Good morning to our guests. I would like to dig a little deeper into the statistics. The committee is trying to grapple with the scale of the problem, and whether the proposed legislation both is fit for purpose and fills the gaps in a way that meets the policy intention and the premise behind it.

Some of the data that I have heard today is news to some of us, but it is also three years out of date. You said that it was from the 2019—what was the description that you used?

Criminal Justice Committee

Fireworks and Pyrotechnic Articles (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 30 March 2022

Jamie Greene

I am sorry if I did not take them down. However, I specifically asked for the statistics in the order that I did because that would give us an idea of the scale of the problem.

Criminal Justice Committee

Fireworks and Pyrotechnic Articles (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 30 March 2022

Jamie Greene

Oh, for sure.

Criminal Justice Committee

Fireworks and Pyrotechnic Articles (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 30 March 2022

Jamie Greene

Do you have the numbers now? This is our last evidence session, so that is why I am pushing you—I am sorry.

Criminal Justice Committee

Fireworks and Pyrotechnic Articles (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 30 March 2022

Jamie Greene

We are now in 2022, and we are creating new legislation.

I have some questions on relativities. How many offences occur each year? That can be an average or a total over 10 years—whatever you have available to you. How does that convert into prosecutions, and what are the outcomes of those prosecutions? Specifically, how many of those offences result in non-court outcomes, and how many of them proceed to court and are prosecuted? For those that proceed to prosecution, what sort of penalties are given?

We know what the existing legislation—the Explosives Act 1875, the Fireworks (Scotland) Regulations 2004 and so on—is and does, and we know what the maximum penalties are. I am keen to understand whether those maximum penalties are being utilised as things stand under the existing legislation before we start introducing new legislation.

Criminal Justice Committee

Fireworks and Pyrotechnic Articles (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 30 March 2022

Jamie Greene

What is the scale of the problem? That is what I am trying to get to. How many offences are reported to the police or local authorities per year? How many of them convert into some form of judicial action, whether that is prosecution, being taken to court or being settled out of court? What are the outcomes of those prosecutions, using the existing maximum penalties that are available? Are those penalties being used to their full extent?

Criminal Justice Committee

Fireworks and Pyrotechnic Articles (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 23 March 2022

Jamie Greene

Thank you, convener.

Criminal Justice Committee

Fireworks and Pyrotechnic Articles (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 23 March 2022

Jamie Greene

There will be people watching this session, especially those who have given evidence already, who will accept that you are making some sensible points, and making them well, but they will also say that, as industry representatives, of course you do not want us to go down the road of having any further restrictions. What would you say to those people? What part of your professional judgment that you are passing on today is not protectionist and is more about specifically what the bill is trying to do and the way in which it is going about it? I ask that because we are going to have to address that issue. The feedback will be, “You heard from the fireworks industry, and of course it is against the proposals.” That was the case with the working group, whose report you dissented from.

Criminal Justice Committee

Fireworks and Pyrotechnic Articles (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 23 March 2022

Jamie Greene

I feel that there is an inevitability about the bill. I know that it is only at stage 1 and that we have not even started talking about our report or finding consensus, but I get the impression from the wider narrative on the issue that some legislation will be passed, although I do not know what that final product will look like. I ask that, as we go through the process, you work with the committee and use your professional judgment and experience in relation to the bill’s direction of travel to ensure that, if it is inevitable that something will be passed, we end up with legislation that is at least manageable. You might not be happy with it—you might think that it will have unintended consequences, for all the reasons that you have given today—but if something is going to be passed, let us at least try to pass a bill that is workable. None of us wants to pass bad law, so I make that open offer to you.

Criminal Justice Committee

Fireworks and Pyrotechnic Articles (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 23 March 2022

Jamie Greene

I think that the committee should explore that, because the Republic of Ireland seems to have gone much further than is proposed in the bill that we are considering. I do not feel that we have heard evidence on that, other than anecdotal evidence. We should be evidence driven in our approach.

The police have told us directly that the bill will be another tool in their toolbox. Are you saying that the issue is that there is a lack of use of, or a misunderstanding of, the current legislation, that the police already have the tools that they need and that it is just a perception that the bill will be another tool?