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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 14 September 2025
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Displaying 1631 contributions

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Criminal Justice Committee

Pre-Budget Scrutiny 2022-23

Meeting date: 2 November 2022

Jamie Greene

Indeed.

Criminal Justice Committee

Pre-Budget Scrutiny 2022-23

Meeting date: 2 November 2022

Jamie Greene

In the table, you have presented the proposed allocation as a flat cash settlement of £170 million per year for four years. On top of that, you detail the cost of various functions, the first of which is the Covid deaths investigation team. The cost of that is on top of the £170 million. When it comes to budget time, if the Government presents you with more than £170 million—between £170 million and £190 million—which of those functions will you be able to deliver and which will you not be able to deliver? I refer you to page 19 of the papers.

Criminal Justice Committee

Pre-Budget Scrutiny 2022-23

Meeting date: 2 November 2022

Jamie Greene

That is interesting confirmation. You say that certain costs will have to be met. I presume that the cost of that would be deducted from any £170 million cash settlement. For example, because you have an obligation to investigate Covid deaths, the £4.5 million cost of that would come out of the £170 million, so you would have £165 million left. If, for example, the Government gave you £175 million, once the Covid investigation costs were taken away from that, you would be back to £170 million again. That is what I am getting at.

Criminal Justice Committee

Pre-Budget Scrutiny 2022-23

Meeting date: 2 November 2022

Jamie Greene

I want to move on to the Scottish Courts and Tribunals Service. In the submission that you made last year as regards your budget requirements, you made a request for £145.7 million. The final budget that was delivered was £133.5 million, which was a shortfall of £12 million on what you requested. Looking back, did that have any effect on the work that you did last year? That will help us to get a feel for might happen if you experience a similar shortfall this time round.

Criminal Justice Committee

Pre-Budget Scrutiny 2022-23

Meeting date: 2 November 2022

Jamie Greene

Just to clarify, then, is the expectation at the moment that the backlog of court cases will return to normal levels by 2025 or 2026?

Criminal Justice Committee

Pre-Budget Scrutiny 2022-23

Meeting date: 2 November 2022

Jamie Greene

I want to follow on from my previous line of questioning around scenario planning. Is there any concern from the Prison Service that, due to the events of the past two and a half years, during which you admit that the rehabilitation service that you would like to have provided has been lacking, coupled with the real potential for reverting to a Covid-like clamp down on what happens in prison, that might create a pressure pot leading to increased violence in prisons, further attacks on staff or even the potential for rioting?

Criminal Justice Committee

Pre-Budget Scrutiny 2022-23

Meeting date: 2 November 2022

Jamie Greene

Last week, we heard quite clearly from other justice partners that a flat cash settlement or a real-terms cut in your budget would equate either to a reduction in head count or to a pay freeze. It is as simple a choice as that. In your scenario, which of those is most likely, given your commitment to a pay award that is above the public sector pay policy? What are the effects of any potential pay freeze or a reduction in staff if either of those scenarios play out?

Criminal Justice Committee

Pre-Budget Scrutiny 2022-23

Meeting date: 2 November 2022

Jamie Greene

What sort of action?

Criminal Justice Committee

Pre-Budget Scrutiny 2022-23

Meeting date: 2 November 2022

Jamie Greene

I will start by looking at some of the budgetary pressures and the scenario planning that you have done. You are quite clear in your submission that

“Due to the nature of our functions there is no or at most, very limited, opportunity to the scaling back of our operations without significant risk to health and welfare support ... reputational damage, the loss of”

services

“and risk to operational stability across the estate.”

Will you elaborate on what you mean by that?

Criminal Justice Committee

Pre-Budget Scrutiny 2022-23

Meeting date: 2 November 2022

Jamie Greene

To clarify your projections—my colleague Russell Findlay covered some of this—you modelled three scenarios: realistic, optimistic and pessimistic. Initially, I had the impression that you had modelled on the basis of a realistic outcome, but the commentary in your submission tends to lean more towards a pessimistic outcome. Where do you sit on that scale at the moment? Whether your outlook is realistic, optimistic or pessimistic, there is still a funding gap in each scenario.