Skip to main content
Loading…

Seòmar agus comataidhean

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

Criathragan Hide all filters

Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 5 July 2025
Select which types of business to include


Select level of detail in results

Displaying 775 contributions

|

Health, Social Care and Sport Committee

Employment Rights Bill (UK Parliament Legislation)

Meeting date: 27 May 2025

Maree Todd

To expand on that, the CCPS tends to represent not-for-profit providers and Scottish Care tends to represent private providers of varying sizes. Both organisations represent very large and very small organisations. It is complex to set up a sectoral bargaining organisation, especially as so many different parties are involved, including a large number of employers, COSLA, the Scottish Government and a variety of trade unions. The academic input has been crucial to unlocking the challenges that we face. We feel as though we are motoring and that we are pretty close to reaching an agreement; we just need to dot the i’s and cross the t’s on the sectoral bargaining proposal.

Health, Social Care and Sport Committee

Employment Rights Bill (UK Parliament Legislation)

Meeting date: 27 May 2025

Maree Todd

They are not quite ready to be implemented. We are still trying to achieve consensus, but the evidence that the committee has taken has been absolutely correct: we have made massive progress and we are significantly ahead of other UK nations, because we have been working for many years on the voluntary sectoral bargaining tool.

I will let Martin Reid say more about the detail.

Health, Social Care and Sport Committee

Employment Rights Bill (UK Parliament Legislation)

Meeting date: 27 May 2025

Maree Todd

My very first conversation with the unions was on exactly that topic. The language used varies round the table, and one of the first things that needs to be done is define that in your sector.

Health, Social Care and Sport Committee

Employment Rights Bill (UK Parliament Legislation)

Meeting date: 27 May 2025

Maree Todd

Do you want to have a go at that, Martin?

Health, Social Care and Sport Committee

Employment Rights Bill (UK Parliament Legislation)

Meeting date: 27 May 2025

Maree Todd

I did not know that minutes had not been produced.

Health, Social Care and Sport Committee

Employment Rights Bill (UK Parliament Legislation)

Meeting date: 27 May 2025

Maree Todd

I do not think that we are planning further consultation, but, once the legislation is passed in the UK Parliament, we definitely need to pause and reflect on whether we will pursue the process with statutory underpinning or continue with our voluntary process as envisaged.

The fair work in social care approach was specifically brought in for Scotland, and, when we consulted the fair work group, it clearly liked the work that has been done so far. We will need to pause and reflect. I do not think that we need to consult too much more, and we have the mechanisms in place to ensure that we hear from the sector.

The UK Employment Rights Bill, as it is amended at the moment, includes provisions to establish a social care negotiating body, but we do not have to do that. We can choose not to implement that part of the legislation in Scotland, but we might find that it is more effective.

Health, Social Care and Sport Committee

Employment Rights Bill (UK Parliament Legislation)

Meeting date: 27 May 2025

Maree Todd

Yes. As we have illustrated with our answers, things are not quite agreed, although we are very close to agreement. I absolutely understand the frustration of people working in the sector that their terms, conditions and pay are not improving fast enough. That is the concern that was outlined to the committee last week. I agree—I would like to go further and faster. A number of limits are in place. We have just about managed to work out a mechanism that can help us to navigate what is a complex landscape. The other challenge will be finding the money, but we are keen to do that. We are committed and we have a track record.

Health, Social Care and Sport Committee

Employment Rights Bill (UK Parliament Legislation)

Meeting date: 27 May 2025

Maree Todd

You are absolutely correct that employment law is reserved. The bill is required to devolve some power to the Scottish ministers to make changes. We saw the bill coming on the horizon and recognised the opportunity to underpin much of the work that we have done on sectoral bargaining by seeking to extend the bill’s scope to Scotland.

When the bill was introduced, it was intended to be for England only. Scotland and Wales in particular were pretty keen for its scope to be extended. That will give us the option to regulate for negotiated fair pay agreements for the sector as an alternative to the voluntary process, which we think will be useful.

On your point about the reserved nature of employment law, the Scottish Government, much of civic Scotland and trade unions are all keen for employment law to be devolved. Under the mechanism that is in the bill, there is an issue that, despite the area being devolved, UK ministers will still have to consent. It is fair to say that we would have preferred not to have that. At the moment, relations are very positive with the UK Government, but there have been times in the recent past when we have had very different views on how we should proceed. Having to ask the UK Government for permission to implement fair work is not my choice.

Health, Social Care and Sport Committee

Employment Rights Bill (UK Parliament Legislation)

Meeting date: 27 May 2025

Maree Todd

We have negotiated a change to that. The arrangements were introduced in that way for England, but we and Wales are both keen on including children’s social care staff, and that will be the position in Scotland.

Health, Social Care and Sport Committee

Employment Rights Bill (UK Parliament Legislation)

Meeting date: 27 May 2025

Maree Todd

We can probably furnish you with some costs. I have spoken before about the on-going costs of the increase in employer national insurance contributions, which we think will cost social care in Scotland between £84 million and £100 million a year, every year, from now on. We are trying to regularly update people and help them to understand the situation, because some of the figures are enormous. We will gather some costings together and provide them to the committee.