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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 15 June 2025
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Displaying 775 contributions

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Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

Care Reform (Scotland) Bill: Financial Summary

Meeting date: 27 May 2025

Maree Todd

I do not think that we have that figure.

Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

Care Reform (Scotland) Bill: Financial Summary

Meeting date: 27 May 2025

Maree Todd

I am confident because, for a number of years, I have worked closely with all of the stakeholders involved. I am confident about where we are and what we are planning to do, and I am confident that we will find an impactful way forward. We all agree that the status quo is not acceptable and that change is needed, and we see the bill as containing the elements of change that are largely universally agreed upon.

Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

Care Reform (Scotland) Bill: Financial Summary

Meeting date: 27 May 2025

Maree Todd

It did not happen with the first iteration—that is correct. It did not happen with the second iteration. The core elements of this third iteration are the issues that everybody is agreed on and the changes that everybody wants to see.

Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

Care Reform (Scotland) Bill: Financial Summary

Meeting date: 27 May 2025

Maree Todd

As I said, and as you have stated yourself, the changes that have occurred relate largely to differences in approach. The most substantial change in the figures is because the approach in the bill has changed. We are settled now, in the main, on what will be delivered by the bill, and the range of potential costs and our confidence in those costs have improved greatly because of that. There is a settled position, and I think that the public would like us to get on with delivering it.

Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

Care Reform (Scotland) Bill: Financial Summary

Meeting date: 27 May 2025

Maree Todd

Lee, would you like to answer that?

Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

Care Reform (Scotland) Bill: Financial Summary

Meeting date: 27 May 2025

Maree Todd

Would you like to respond to that, Lee?

Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

Care Reform (Scotland) Bill: Financial Summary

Meeting date: 27 May 2025

Maree Todd

I agree. The changes in the financial memorandum over the years largely reflect the changes to the bill. The bill has been refined and we have, as the committee will be aware, substantially changed course a number of times, and each time we have provided the committee with fresh estimates of what the bill will cost to deliver, according to what is intended by it.

We are getting very close to delivery point. There are still some unknowns about what refinements might occur at stage 3, but we have greatly narrowed the range and are pretty confident about the direction of travel.

The reason that the numbers were different in the letter that I sent last week—and the reason for the correction that I have sent today—was simply human error. A box in a table was completed and, as a result, the phasing started one year earlier than it should have, which knocked the whole table out of sync. The error was quickly spotted and corrected.

The reason for the range in the figures is that we are projecting 10 years in the future and the ranges get broader the further they are from the moment in time at which we start. Therefore, we are taking into account the projected increase in the number of carers and things like that, but we cannot know specifically how many carers will use the service in 10 years.

Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

Care Reform (Scotland) Bill: Financial Summary

Meeting date: 27 May 2025

Maree Todd

As I have previously explained during various committee appearances and in the chamber, a great deal of Anne’s law has already been delivered by secondary legislation—indeed, many of the changes that we need to see have already happened on the ground. The Care Inspectorate is a passionate advocate for Anne’s law now, so I think that the cost that will be associated with the final iteration’s introduction will be insubstantial, because much of the cost has accrued already in the course of normal work.

Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

Care Reform (Scotland) Bill: Financial Summary

Meeting date: 27 May 2025

Maree Todd

No, thank you. I am very grateful for the committee’s time and its on-going scrutiny of the bill. I think that the changes that the bill proposes are ones that everyone in Scotland is now agreed upon, and I am keen to crack on and deliver.

Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

Care Reform (Scotland) Bill: Financial Summary

Meeting date: 27 May 2025

Maree Todd

As I said, the national care service team does not work entirely on bill delivery—bill delivery is a great deal of what they do, but the ambition behind the national care service initiative, which is to reduce variation in the level and quality of care, is greater than the bill. The bill team delivers a large amount of work in that regard outside the work on the bill itself.

To put those costs into context, that £30 million over three years relates to work on understanding a system that costs £6.1 billion a year. That means that less than 0.2 per cent of the cost of the system is being spent on understanding how it works, on consultation and on the creation of ways of achieving improvements in the system.

Over the past few months, I have raised many concerns in the chamber about some of the changes that have hit us in social care in Scotland, such as the increase in employer national insurance contributions, which has had a devastating impact and will undoubtedly lead to some care providers going under, and the changes to immigration arrangements. I wish that all Governments spent time understanding the sector before making substantial changes.