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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 15 June 2025
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Displaying 775 contributions

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Health, Social Care and Sport Committee [Draft]

Employment Rights Bill (UK Parliament Legislation)

Meeting date: 27 May 2025

Maree Todd

The group has quite broad representation. Martin Reid might want to talk a little more about it.

Health, Social Care and Sport Committee [Draft]

Employment Rights Bill (UK Parliament Legislation)

Meeting date: 27 May 2025

Maree Todd

I will add a little more detail. One thing to be aware of about unionisation levels across the sector—which we are keen to increase, because we see that as a means of improving the pay and terms and conditions for the workforce—is that, as well as being relatively low, with around 20 per cent of the workforce unionised, union membership is concentrated in local government employees. Do not misunderstand me: we are keen to listen to and work with unions, but a large part of the workforce is not represented by the unions, so we need to ensure that we capture the voice of that workforce.

Another thing that has disrupted progress, in a good way, during the past few months is the issue that I am here to talk about today—the Employment Rights Bill, which we have had to take time to examine. We have been working on that through a voluntary arrangement in Scotland. The Employment Rights Bill is going through the UK Parliament because what it covers is largely reserved. We have had to take time to take stock and have a look at that proposal, which we broadly welcome, which is why I am here today.

Health, Social Care and Sport Committee [Draft]

Employment Rights Bill (UK Parliament Legislation)

Meeting date: 27 May 2025

Maree Todd

The reason for focusing on commissioned services is that there are already arrangements in place for local authority employment.

Health, Social Care and Sport Committee [Draft]

Employment Rights Bill (UK Parliament Legislation)

Meeting date: 27 May 2025

Maree Todd

Largely, people can raise issues with the Care Inspectorate, and there are protections in place, so those discussions are confidential. The identity of the person who raises concerns does not have to be in the public domain.

Health, Social Care and Sport Committee [Draft]

Employment Rights Bill (UK Parliament Legislation)

Meeting date: 27 May 2025

Maree Todd

That troubleshooting mechanism was introduced because there were significant delays between our putting the money into the system for the uplift to the real living wage and people actually receiving the real living wage. That mechanism appears to have largely sorted the issue.

Health, Social Care and Sport Committee [Draft]

Employment Rights Bill (UK Parliament Legislation)

Meeting date: 27 May 2025

Maree Todd

The issue of geography is always challenging. In the Highlands, we have always been quite keen on virtual options for meeting, because the distances involved are vast, but that has become much more of a factor since the pandemic, and now people can go online to gather together, work together and network virtually in a way that was not commonplace a few years ago. Therefore, issues of geography should not prevent union membership.

On the hostility towards unions, it is important that we remind people of the benefits of union membership. That includes reminding employers of the benefits that their organisations will realise if their workforce has union representation, an effective voice and better terms, conditions and pay.

We have worked really hard to work in partnership with the sector, despite the low unionisation level, which exists for all sorts of reasons. However, we are pretty keen on unionisation in the sector. I see union membership and increasing unionisation of the workforce as being strongly beneficial to the workers and to the sector as a whole.

Health, Social Care and Sport Committee [Draft]

Employment Rights Bill (UK Parliament Legislation)

Meeting date: 27 May 2025

Maree Todd

There is a great deal of on-going work on fair work in the social care sector. We have overseen a significant increase in investment in social care, and specific workstreams of activity are well under way to progress actions to improve fair work in the adult social care sector. The workstreams are being taken forward in partnership with key stakeholders through the fair work in social care group.

Workstream 1 has enabled a minimum rate of pay of at least the real living wage for workers who are delivering direct care and commissioned social care services, as well as enabling annual uplifts to be delivered quickly into workers’ salaries.

Workstream 2 has developed a framework of proposed minimum terms and conditions, reflecting fair work principles and initial priority areas to be progressed. Due to budget constraints, we are currently unable to implement those proposed minimum standards.

Workstream 3 has developed an effective voice framework. The first phase of that delivery programme has been rolled out through a volunteer cohort of organisations from across the sector in Scotland. That will undergo a comprehensive evaluation before progressing to national deployment.

Through workstream 4, progress has been made on voluntary sectoral bargaining with key stakeholders. That work is complex, as there are more than 1,000 employers in the social care sector. Once developed and introduced, it will help to underpin improvements in pay and terms and conditions across the social care workforce.

Health, Social Care and Sport Committee [Draft]

Employment Rights Bill (UK Parliament Legislation)

Meeting date: 27 May 2025

Maree Todd

Over the years, our track record in delivering at least the real living wage to people who are employed in social care has been strong. That has been possible to deliver because we have put in extra money. That policy of investing sufficient funding to ensure that everyone is paid at least the real living wage now costs between £900 million and £1 billion.

The workforce tells us that, if we were to bring in improvements on terms and conditions, its priorities would be maternity and paternity pay, as well as sickness pay. Yes—we would have to invest extra money to ensure that those changes were delivered into the system.

Health, Social Care and Sport Committee [Draft]

Employment Rights Bill (UK Parliament Legislation)

Meeting date: 27 May 2025

Maree Todd

Absolutely. Unions are brilliant at providing professional leadership. We have a professional workforce in social care in Scotland, which is a slightly different approach from that in the rest of the UK. The situation in the rest of the UK has led to some of the narrative over the past few weeks around immigration. Keir Starmer talked about the social care workforce being low skilled, which I absolutely rail against.

Our workforce in Scotland is professional. Staff are regulated by and registered with the Scottish Social Services Council and are either qualified or working towards qualifications. A great deal of support is available to maintain the level of skill and increase pathways to progress in our social care sector. The situation is significantly different in England, which has perhaps led to some of the misunderstanding over the past few weeks.

As I have said clearly in the chamber, the announcement on immigration is potentially catastrophic for particular geographies, including Scotland’s rural areas, such as the ones that you and I represent. It is a result of a fundamental misunderstanding of the different approach to social care in Scotland.

Health, Social Care and Sport Committee [Draft]

Employment Rights Bill (UK Parliament Legislation)

Meeting date: 27 May 2025

Maree Todd

To expand on that, the CCPS tends to represent not-for-profit providers and Scottish Care tends to represent private providers of varying sizes. Both organisations represent very large and very small organisations. It is complex to set up a sectoral bargaining organisation, especially as so many different parties are involved, including a large number of employers, COSLA, the Scottish Government and a variety of trade unions. The academic input has been crucial to unlocking the challenges that we face. We feel as though we are motoring and that we are pretty close to reaching an agreement; we just need to dot the i’s and cross the t’s on the sectoral bargaining proposal.