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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 15 January 2026
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Displaying 1331 contributions

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Criminal Justice Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 30 October 2024

Liam Kerr

I was very interested in the part of your submission in which you stated that the

“financial implications of current legislation is significantly higher than we are able to absorb within our BAU activity”—

that is, your business-as-usual activity. Many parliamentarians, especially those on the Finance and Public Administration Committee, have been increasingly concerned about that issue, so I was particularly interested in what you said.

Is the cost of that legislation broadly what was predicted in the financial memoranda to the relevant bills at the time? In any event, given that you have built the costs of meeting those demands into your budget ask, what will happen if the Scottish Government does not cover that?

Criminal Justice Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 30 October 2024

Liam Kerr

Let me press you on one point. I appreciate that you might not be in a position to answer this question; I might put it to the SPA later. In its financial memoranda to the legislation in question, did Parliament accurately predict the cost to policing? If not, there is something going wrong at this end.

Criminal Justice Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 30 October 2024

Liam Kerr

Good morning. I will move to the resource budget. Chief constable, the Scottish Government asked you to model two scenarios, one in which you receive a flat cash settlement and one in which there is a 3 per cent cash reduction. In your submission, you said that a flat cash settlement would mean that officer numbers could drop to 15,100 and that a 3 per cent cash reduction would

“see police officer numbers drop below 15,000.”

How inevitable is that? If the budget shows, for example, flat cash, is that the number of officers that we will see by March 2026?

Criminal Justice Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 30 October 2024

Liam Kerr

If I may, I would like to come back to the question of the impact—the point is well made—and I will ask a question to DCC Connors in a second.

Chief constable, you made projections based on a flat cash settlement and on a 3 per cent cash reduction. However, there are on-going pay claims. Can you advise where we are on the settlement of those claims? In any event, what impact could any such settlement have on your projections by March 2026?

Criminal Justice Committee

Deputy Convener

Meeting date: 30 October 2024

Liam Kerr

Only that it would have been awkward if everyone had not agreed to that. I am delighted to be back and very pleased to see so many familiar faces and so much expertise on the witness panel. It is going to be very enjoyable and I am delighted to be here.

Criminal Justice Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 30 October 2024

Liam Kerr

I understand. Martyn Evans, I have a final question for you. In your opening remarks to the convener, you mentioned that your aim was sustainable policing. What impact will such reductions in numbers, with flat cash or a 3 per cent budget reduction, whether to staff or officers, have on policing sustainability, and what will the impact be going forward generally?

11:45  

Criminal Justice Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 30 October 2024

Liam Kerr

Lynn Brown, I will stay with you if you do not mind. What impact will flat cash or a 3 per cent reduction have on the chief constable’s three-year plan?

Criminal Justice Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 30 October 2024

Liam Kerr

You have mentioned the domestic abuse protection legislation as incurring a cost, and you have talked about the age of criminal responsibility legislation. Within the relevant financial memoranda, there will have been a prediction of what the cost of that legislation would be for policing.

Criminal Justice Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 30 October 2024

Liam Kerr

I am very grateful to you all for those answers.

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Education (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 9 October 2024

Liam Kerr

Good morning. On the rebranding point, which George Adam made well, I note that Fiona Robertson of the SQA told the committee that the bill creates a new organisation that has the same functions, not only in broad terms, but in quite specific terms, as the existing organisation. If it will be the same organisation with a new name, but with the same people and the same specific functions, how can you, as cabinet secretary, be sure that the issues that arose will not happen again, and that the trust that you demand will be earned and maintained? How will it be monitored?