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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 17 October 2025
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Displaying 1245 contributions

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Criminal Justice Committee

Policing Vulnerable People

Meeting date: 8 January 2025

Liam Kerr

Good morning to the cabinet secretary and her officials. Cabinet secretary, you will have heard in the previous session—you will no doubt have considered what was said—that ASPS and the SPF have, in their submissions to the committee, highlighted several concerns. One of those is that the police, rather than other organisations, are having to lead on this area.

I give you the opportunity to give your views on that and to say whether you think that there is sufficient input and leadership from other organisations and portfolio areas to address mental health and policing.

Criminal Justice Committee

Policing Vulnerable People

Meeting date: 8 January 2025

Liam Kerr

I will speak quickly, convener. I will put my question to ACC Paton, if I may. Section 297 of the Mental Health (Care and Treatment) (Scotland) Act 2003 gives the police powers to remove

“a person ... in a public place ... to a place of safety”

if they reasonably believe that there is

“a mental disorder”

and some other conditions apply. The police cannot remove the person from their home, and such removal requires there to be a mental disorder, which police officers are not necessarily trained to assess. I go back to Dr Steel’s point that police officers often respond to mental distress rather than mental disorders. Should the committee consider whether the 2003 act needs to be amended or improved to help you to do your job?

Criminal Justice Committee

Policing Vulnerable People

Meeting date: 8 January 2025

Liam Kerr

On that point—

Criminal Justice Committee

Policing Vulnerable People

Meeting date: 8 January 2025

Liam Kerr

I will be very quick, convener. On that point, ACC Paton, you have talked a lot about the improvements and the good work that is going on, but ASPS and the SPF were very clear that that is not necessarily translating to the front line. If I ask them in a year’s time whether that has improved, will they tell me that there has been a tangible improvement at the operational level?

Criminal Justice Committee

Policing Vulnerable People

Meeting date: 8 January 2025

Liam Kerr

In 2021, the Lord Advocate made a statement on diversion from prosecution. She stated that recorded police warnings could be given for possession of any class of drugs. I appreciate that you might need to come back to me on this, but do you have statistics to hand on how many such warnings for possession were given pre and post that announcement and positioning? Is that broken down for different substances? Crucially for our purposes today, are you aware of any direct impact of that positioning on policing time spent on people experiencing harmful substance abuse?

Criminal Justice Committee

Policing Vulnerable People

Meeting date: 8 January 2025

Liam Kerr

I am very grateful for that—thank you.

Criminal Justice Committee

Policing Vulnerable People

Meeting date: 8 January 2025

Liam Kerr

I am very grateful—thank you.

Criminal Justice Committee

Policing Vulnerable People

Meeting date: 8 January 2025

Liam Kerr

I have one final question, which is also for ACC Paton. You have talked about the initiatives that are going on and the positive impact that they are having. However, both ASPS and the SPF, in their evidence to the committee, mentioned the right care, right person approach, which is used throughout most of England and Wales, I think—those are my words, not theirs. What is your view on that model, and should it be adopted by Police Scotland?

Criminal Justice Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 18 December 2024

Liam Kerr

A similar question occurs to me. You said that there was a potential gap; however, earlier in your remarks, you said that it has become apparent that the change is needed. That rather implies that there have been some cases in which the police have been hamstrung or perhaps less able to put together an application. Is that correct? If so, are you aware of any negative consequences of this change not having been in place already, such that it is now needed?

Criminal Justice Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 18 December 2024

Liam Kerr

I understand. Thank you.