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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 10 May 2025
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Displaying 967 contributions

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Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 1 November 2023

Rona Mackay

I take your point. However, we as a committee will be able to judge that, because we speak to victims and victims organisations, and they are not telling us that a lot has improved. Obviously, we will be able to monitor how effective all of that is.

Chief Superintendent Frew, you said in your submission that the training required for trauma-informed practice “will require significant investment”, and the submission raises significant concerns. Everyone has said that they are well down the road of doing that, so why is significant investment required? Can you give me an idea of why that was raised?

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 1 November 2023

Rona Mackay

Laura Buchan, your submission said a similar thing, but it sounds like you are well down the road to trauma-informed practice. Therefore, why would that need lots more investment?

Criminal Justice Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2024-25

Meeting date: 1 November 2023

Rona Mackay

I get that.

Criminal Justice Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2024-25

Meeting date: 1 November 2023

Rona Mackay

It is all interlinked.

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 1 November 2023

Rona Mackay

Good morning, panel. Dr Bruce, I want to go back to something that you said about the whole system and all the agencies working together generically but also working individually. Can that work? How far away are we from that happening? Is that a long-term aspiration?

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 1 November 2023

Rona Mackay

What do you mean by “minimising barriers” to effective participation?

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 1 November 2023

Rona Mackay

It is going to grow.

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 1 November 2023

Rona Mackay

Thank you. That is useful to know.

This question is for Laura Buchan. My colleague Fulton MacGregor and I were members of the Justice Committee in the previous session. One of the first things that we did in 2016 was an inquiry into the Crown Office. To go back to the line of questioning from my colleague Pauline McNeill, the lack of communication to victims and witnesses was the key point that came out of that inquiry. That was a long time ago, and it seems to me that that communication has not improved that much. From what you are saying, you are now addressing that issue and taking it very seriously. Will improvement happen sooner than within eight years? People being left in the dark was a key point that came out of the inquiry, and that caused great trauma.

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 1 November 2023

Rona Mackay

I go back to points that were made earlier about culture change coming from leadership. I do not understand why that would be expensive.

Criminal Justice Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2024-25

Meeting date: 1 November 2023

Rona Mackay

I will be brief. We are having an interesting discussion and it has been an interesting session. We are learning that if we keep doing the same thing budget-wise, things will not get better. In fact, they will get worse. It goes back to the points that John Swinney and Bill Fitzpatrick made about the sector getting together to discuss how we can do things differently. You know that if we cut the Scottish Prison Service budget in the next budget, there would be an outcry, because the preparatory work for that has not been done.

Is it possible for you and the Government to effect change in the way that is needed? As Bill Fitzpatrick said, quite rightly, it has not happened, and people are protecting their own areas. That needs to change. Being a bit simplistic about it, if we put fewer people in prison, which we aim to do, prison should not need such a huge budget and that money could be put into community justice. I am certainly no economist but until we start having the conversation about change, nothing will happen. Am I right?