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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 3 July 2025
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Displaying 1119 contributions

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Criminal Justice Committee

Police (Ethics, Conduct and Scrutiny) (Scotland) Bill:Stage 1

Meeting date: 16 May 2024

Rona Mackay

The other issue is transparency and lack of communication. People have just been left not knowing what is happening. That is operational as well, I guess.

Criminal Justice Committee

Police (Ethics, Conduct and Scrutiny) (Scotland) Bill:Stage 1

Meeting date: 16 May 2024

Rona Mackay

I want to ask you briefly about vexatious complainers. The bill does not contain any reference to that, and the Government has said that it will monitor that and bring it in as secondary legislation if it is required. What is your view on that?

Criminal Justice Committee

Police (Ethics, Conduct and Scrutiny) (Scotland) Bill:Stage 1

Meeting date: 16 May 2024

Rona Mackay

Two of the main issues that we have heard about from witnesses are the time taken to complete investigations and what they perceive as a lack of transparency in the system. One witness told us that the system does not work for police officers or members of the public, and another said that the time taken was a deliberate tactic used by Police Scotland to wear her down and make her simply go away. Will the bill do enough to tackle those issues?

Criminal Justice Committee

Police (Ethics, Conduct and Scrutiny) (Scotland) Bill:Stage 1

Meeting date: 16 May 2024

Rona Mackay

I will ask one more question if I may, please, convener.

You mentioned the PIRC, and I wanted to ask you about concerns around the independence of the PIRC in relation to the number of ex-police officers in the organisation. You make a recommendation that it should be PIRC policy to replace former police officers with non-police officers on their retirement from the PIRC.

Do you think that the PIRC is truly independent from Police Scotland? Should the bill set out more about the formation of who makes up the PIRC? Again, we have heard some concerning evidence from witnesses about their experience with the PIRC—people have told us that they felt that the PIRC was covering their pals’ backs, if you know what I mean.

10:30  

Criminal Justice Committee

Police (Ethics, Conduct and Scrutiny) (Scotland) Bill:Stage 1

Meeting date: 16 May 2024

Rona Mackay

Obviously, the PIRC can investigate only senior officers, and Police Scotland investigates the level below that. We also heard concerns that, at that level, they were all pals together and the police would not be objective in the investigations. Is there anything that could be done about that?

Criminal Justice Committee

Police (Ethics, Conduct and Scrutiny) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 15 May 2024

Rona Mackay

That was helpful. It seems to me that there are a lot of players; there are various organisations doing different things. Would not it be better for you to have all the investigatory work done when you are presented with a case, before you make the decision whether to prosecute? It seems to me that some has been done, but it is not completed, so then you do it. That is a bit cumbersome, is it not?

Criminal Justice Committee

Police (Ethics, Conduct and Scrutiny) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 15 May 2024

Rona Mackay

Good morning, Mr Farrell. My question, which follows on from what you have been discussing with the convener, relates to the timescale for deciding whether to prosecute. Witnesses have advised the committee that the length of time that that has taken has, in their eyes, been unacceptable, and that there was a shadow hanging over them for a long time.

Also the report by His Majesty’s chief inspector of prisons for Scotland said that the 12-week target for decision making

“is based on flawed data”

and that

“there is a lack of robust and accurate management information about CAAP-D’s work.”

I know that you will be aware of that report. Could you address that and the timescales involved, please?

Criminal Justice Committee

Police (Ethics, Conduct and Scrutiny) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 15 May 2024

Rona Mackay

Good morning. My first question is for Phillip Chapman. Witnesses have raised with us the time taken to complete investigations and the lack of transparency in the system. One witness said that the system does not work for police officers or for members of the public. Do you think that the bill does enough to address the issue of lengthy timescales and the problems associated with that? Perhaps you could explain your thinking on that and say whether you think that things are going to improve, because we heard that that was definitely a problem.

Criminal Justice Committee

Police (Ethics, Conduct and Scrutiny) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 15 May 2024

Rona Mackay

Thank you for that.

Sharon Clelland, are non-disclosure agreements routinely used in your work?

Criminal Justice Committee

Police (Ethics, Conduct and Scrutiny) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 15 May 2024

Rona Mackay

That is fine. His Majesty’s Inspectorate of Constabulary in Scotland already has responsibility for reviewing the policies and practice of Police Scotland and the Scottish Police Authority and to co-ordinate that with the PIRC. Do you think that that whole arrangement is working well? Does anything need to be done legislatively to improve that?