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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 11 May 2025
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Displaying 967 contributions

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Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 24 January 2024

Rona Mackay

Going back to the 43 per cent, do you agree that that is a rape myth? You just said that judges have—

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 24 January 2024

Rona Mackay

It is not a question of knocking it down; I am just questioning you about the 43 per cent. You are saying that action was taken on that, which proves that some rape myths are evidential.

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 24 January 2024

Rona Mackay

Does that happen a lot?

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 24 January 2024

Rona Mackay

That is why I am questioning you on it. That is fine—you have answered the point.

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 24 January 2024

Rona Mackay

Finally, did your research include taking any evidence from survivors?

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 24 January 2024

Rona Mackay

Did it have an impact on the scope for rape myths et cetera to impact the outcome?

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 17 January 2024

Rona Mackay

Do you think that the victims commissioner could incorporate that in his or her duties? They will not be able to intervene in individual cases, so it would seem to me that having oversight of what is actually happening would be a good role.

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 17 January 2024

Rona Mackay

Hello, and thank you for being here. Before I ask my questions, I want to briefly follow up on what you have been talking about. I go back to your point, Hannah, about being listened to. If the message comes across from today’s meeting that being listened to is so key to your experience of the process, that will be brilliant.

On trauma-informed practice—you spoke about the one-size-fits-all approach—surely trauma-informed training should train people to understand that they cannot take that approach. People need to listen to that message, too.

I want to discuss the issue of specialist courts. Ellie, you explained very well the solemnity of High Court proceedings and how that reflected the seriousness of what happened to you. I completely understand that. The committee has had the same concern, but I will put to you what we have been told when we have asked about that. We have been told that it will not be a downgrading of the High Court process and that matters will be treated in the same way. The sentencing will be the same as it would be if the case was heard in the High Court. The upside is that the judge would be specially trained in trauma-informed practice in order to deal with your unique experience and the seriousness of the crime.

If you could be convinced—or rather, if you could be reassured that that would be the case, would you support the use of specialist courts for that reason?

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 17 January 2024

Rona Mackay

Good morning. I want to pick up on a couple of the points that have been made about judge-only trials. Some of the women whom we heard from earlier said that they found the prospect of judge-only trials scary because they would not have confidence that that one person was not biased. However, I submit that there is more chance of a few people in a jury being biased than there is of that one specially trained judge being biased. The key point that must be remembered is that, in a specialist court, judges would have to have had all the necessary training and would have to understand the very sensitive nature of the issues.

That brings me on to my question, which relates to a point that one of the women made about the role of the victims and witnesses commissioner for Scotland. They felt—and I agree—that members of the legal profession must be held to account in some way for their conduct. We can pass all the legislation in the world, but if members of the legal profession do not implement it, it is pointless. Could keeping an eye on how cases are conducted and how the legal profession implements trauma-informed practice be a key role for the victims commissioner?

12:00  

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 17 January 2024

Rona Mackay

That is something to think about. Does anyone else have a view on that?