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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 15 June 2025
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Displaying 1052 contributions

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Criminal Justice Committee [Draft]

Substance Misuse in Prisons

Meeting date: 28 May 2025

Rona Mackay

I would like to ask about the impact on prison staff and other prisoners, but, before I do so, I would like to pick up a wee bit on Ben Macpherson’s earlier question. I was really interested in what Kirsten Horsburgh said at the start of our session about not believing that people with drug use or addiction problems should be in prison. I totally agree with that. I am very interested in the issue of women in prison, the majority of whom are there with mental health or addiction problems, and I totally agree that they should not be there. Kirsten also said that she would be in favour of decriminalising drug use, and I want to ask John Mooney whether he agrees with that.

Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee [Draft]

Scottish Parliament (Recall and Removal of Members) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 22 May 2025

Rona Mackay

Thank you for that.

Dr Stanford, I think that you are of a similar mind to Professor Clark. In your submission, you say:

“Such a move would need considerable safeguards to protect against ... pressure groups with vested interests”

and would involve

“requiring clear evidence of an MSP’s protracted absence without reasonable cause from Parliament.”

I am a bit confused as to where the lines are between being off on sick leave for physical or mental health issues and not physically coming to Parliament for 180 days. I wonder whether the bill does not set that out clearly enough.

Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee [Draft]

Scottish Parliament (Recall and Removal of Members) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 22 May 2025

Rona Mackay

I want to ask the question about disqualification for non-attendance that I put to the earlier witnesses. They seemed to suggest that that does not fit so well with the bill and that it should not be part of it. What is your view? Also, with regard to someone making one appearance in 180 days, is it fair to exclude hybrid participation from that?

Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee [Draft]

Scottish Parliament (Recall and Removal of Members) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 22 May 2025

Rona Mackay

There is a clear difference between ill health and misconduct, and I am just trying to tease out whether you think that the bill is explicit enough in the separation of those things. Juliet Swann, would you like to answer?

Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee [Draft]

Scottish Parliament (Recall and Removal of Members) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 22 May 2025

Rona Mackay

Thankfully, we can do that.

Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee [Draft]

Scottish Parliament (Recall and Removal of Members) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 22 May 2025

Rona Mackay

Good morning. I have questions about non-attendance and the criteria for disqualification. There is clearly a big difference between being disqualified for misconduct and receiving a custodial sentence.

Professor Clark, in your submission, you say:

“Physical non-attendance at least once in 180 days seems like a low bar for an MSP to meet”.

and that

“Consideration of changing and updating the Code of Conduct to deal with”

that

“would seem to avoid the need for ... legislation”.

Is the bill too open about what criteria are needed in that regard? I am thinking about a situation involving someone’s physical or mental health, which is very different from somebody having committed an offence or misconduct. Should the bill set out exactly what the criteria for non-attendance should be?

Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee [Draft]

Scottish Parliament (Recall and Removal of Members) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 22 May 2025

Rona Mackay

The other issue is whether the bill provides enough safeguards when it comes to confidentiality and the privacy of MSPs who might have complex reasons for not being there, which perhaps brings us back to the question whether those provisions should be in the bill at all. I sense that you are all of a similar mind about who judges that, but what are the criteria and who judges whether that person should be disqualified?

Obviously, it is clear cut in other situations that involve misconduct, custodial sentences and so on. However, when somebody is absent, who judges whether they are at it? That is problematic. I do not think that there is a clear answer to that, but it should perhaps be looked at and defined a little more clearly in the bill.

I am sensing that none of you has a clear answer to that.

Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee [Draft]

Scottish Parliament (Recall and Removal of Members) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 22 May 2025

Rona Mackay

Juliet Swann mentioned caring responsibilities, which are often a reason why elected members cannot attend. I would like to hear your thoughts on that, Annabel Mullin. Also, does the bill give enough weight to privacy and the confidentiality of a person’s personal circumstances?

Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee [Draft]

Scottish Parliament (Recall and Removal of Members) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 22 May 2025

Rona Mackay

It begs the wider question of whether that element is a fit for the bill. There is certainly a precedent with councillors; a law about their attendance already exists. However, now that we have moved on to a more hybrid approach to working, a closer look is needed as to whether attendance would fit in the bill and whether it would possibly be an invasion of a person’s rights to say, “You’ve not been here.” If we put to one side ill health, mental health and caring responsibilities, there are a myriad of other reasons that could prevent them from attending.

Standards, Procedures and Public Appointments Committee [Draft]

Scottish Parliament (Recall and Removal of Members) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 22 May 2025

Rona Mackay

Thank you. Do you wish to add anything, Dr McKerrell?