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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 17 July 2025
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Displaying 930 contributions

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Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee

Office for the Internal Market (Annual Report)

Meeting date: 7 September 2023

Kate Forbes

Do concerns largely get raised about issues that are focused on by the media, or do they largely come from the direct experiences that businesses have had?

Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee

Office for the Internal Market (Annual Report)

Meeting date: 7 September 2023

Kate Forbes

I suppose that it raises awareness, which you earlier suggested is needed.

Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee

Interests

Meeting date: 7 September 2023

Kate Forbes

I do not believe that I have any relevant interests to declare.

Rural Affairs and Islands Committee

Interests

Meeting date: 6 September 2023

Kate Forbes

Thank you very much, convener. I am absolutely delighted to be on the committee and I do not have any relevant interests to declare as far as I am aware.

Citizen Participation and Public Petitions Committee

Continued Petitions

Meeting date: 14 June 2023

Kate Forbes

Thank you for having me at the meeting, convener.

I express my sincere thanks to Laura Hansler and the A9 dual action group for bringing the petition before the committee and, indeed, raising the profile of the issue. It is the product of frustration but also grief at the number of fatalities on the road, as well as accidents and near misses, which do not get recorded.

I will make some very brief comments about the matter not being just a Highlands problem. It is an issue of national concern for three reasons. The first is that there is no transition to net zero without dualling the A9. That is contrary to arguments that have been made about it being inconsistent with our move to net zero. However, the Highlands and rural Scotland disproportionately rely on car use and we must have an electrified, dualled A9 for safe use. Secondly, the Highlands relies on the road for economic reasons, which have already been covered. Thirdly, the region is reliant on it when it comes to safety. Above everything else, that third reason is perhaps the most important.

There is a cast-iron guarantee to dual the A9. We are exercised about seeing the timetable and ensuring that it is backed up with appropriate procurement processes, which have come in for some criticism, and a budget. I know the constraints on our budget. Clearly, given a £5 billion capital budget every year, an A9 dualling programme that costs £3 billion needs to be prioritised. That will mean difficult decisions elsewhere but, such is the importance of the project, we need that prioritisation and that funding.

That is all that I have to say, because the topic has been adequately covered, but I cannot stress enough the importance of the programme both to my constituents and to those whose lives have been affected as they wait for the updated timetable—including those who are subject to compulsory purchase orders, who have been waiting in some cases for almost a decade for dualling to go through and the sale of whose houses, for example, has been affected. It also impacts on the rest of Scotland. Those three really important groups want answers.

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Resource Spending Review

Meeting date: 23 June 2022

Kate Forbes

My point to the Finance and Public Administration Committee was on its line of questioning, commenting on the fact that, essentially, the gap between what the Scottish Government spends on social security and what we receive from the UK Government is set to increase by more than £1 billion over the next few years. That has been an intentional choice. You cannot talk about putting fairness and dignity at the heart of social security and not put your money where your mouth is. In fact, I do not think that any member has ever voted in the chamber against that fairness point when it comes to social security. It is right that that funding is there.

On the other side, however, the reason why we have been intentional about investing in increasing the Scottish child payment, alongside, for example, significant investment in employability support for families—supporting the payment of the living wage and supporting families into work—is because we want to reduce child poverty. Ultimately, to be effective will be to see Scottish child payments, in the round, reducing over the long term.

We all want there to be fewer children in poverty and therefore fewer children who are eligible. I was very clear with the Finance and Public Administration Committee that I am talking about the long term, if we are to be effective in doing that.

We will continue to invest in other areas of social security, such as disability benefits and so on. We have put fairness and dignity at the heart of social security, so those payments will, rightly, continue.

My point was that, ultimately, we want those forms of support to deliver the outcome of reducing the number of children in poverty and, by extension, the number of eligible families, because they no longer need that support.

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Resource Spending Review

Meeting date: 23 June 2022

Kate Forbes

Shona might have said this already, but the Scottish Fiscal Commission’s forecasts bind us, as it were, to what we spend. They also bind us in terms of having to meet demand-led schemes, which is absolutely right. I know that the committee has expressed an interest in the topic before, but I think that the discussions about the fiscal framework often fixate on taxation and borrowing. However, one of the biggest changes that we have seen in the past few years is trying to manage the volatility in a demand-led scheme.

I have to allow—quite rightly—for sufficient budget to meet demand. I cannot say, in this year of volatility, that we will allocate £4.2 billion—which is the figure that we have allocated for social security—and then get to January only to realise that the demand is £4.6 billion and I need to identify £400 million from within a fixed budget. You cannot do that. You cannot identify £400 million from within a fixed budget in a matter of weeks. That figure is almost the entirety of some portfolios. Therefore, you have to manage the demand-led schemes, but the level of risk is so substantial that I think that we need the tools in the budget to manage that.

If ADP becomes more generous—our schemes are already more generous by a margin of £1.3 billion over the next few years—in my technical world, managing a more generous scheme requires me to have the right tools to meet that demand.

If there is error and the Scottish Fiscal Commission forecasts are wrong—every economist makes errors, because nobody can predict to the precise penny what something will cost, so that is not being wrong but just the nature of the job—in that situation, any other Government would borrow for the shortfall. It would not go digging in other pots of money from other portfolios to take that and scupper those areas to fund the shortfall. I cannot borrow for that shortfall. My borrowing allowance for forecast error is £300 million, and you will already have seen from the tax position that we are forecast to have to meet a gap that is significantly higher than that, and this is before we even talk about social security.

I make that point in answer to Jeremy Balfour’s question because I think that we all have genuine interest in ensuring that we have tools in place to manage demand-led schemes. It might sound technical, dull and irrelevant, but it makes all the difference in the world to the individuals who are eligible for the schemes.

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Resource Spending Review

Meeting date: 23 June 2022

Kate Forbes

There are a number of lines or portfolios in the resource spending review that all contribute to the wider picture on employability. You can, of course, look at the education and skills line or the employability lines in my portfolio. Prioritising one area means, by extension, not prioritising others. In my portfolio, I have prioritised employability.

I mention that because we must become more flexible in supporting parents if we are going to tackle child poverty. You cannot consider simply the more conventional skills routes. You can rightly scrutinise higher and further education but, in my portfolio, on employability, I am excited about the significant increase in investment in the no one left behind strategy and the significant investment in a new commitment, which is the offer to parents. That brings together a range of services and support, including not only employability but childcare, health, support to access transport and family wellbeing. In other words, it is a wraparound support that focuses on families that are at the greatest risk of experiencing poverty.

This year, we have allocated up to £113 million to employability services. That includes up to £81 million to support delivery of the commitments on the second tackling child poverty delivery plan. That enables you to see the trajectory across the RSR.

I dispute the premise of the question, because we need to think far more flexibly about employability. Therefore, you need to consider the RSR in the round. The four priorities that have been identified, one of which is tackling child poverty, must run through every portfolio. It cannot be just Shona Robison’s job to tackle child poverty; it has to be my job in finance and employability, the Cabinet Secretary for Health and Social Care’s job and the Cabinet Secretary for the Constitution, External Affairs and Culture’s job. It is all of our jobs. We all should prioritise it, which is what you see in my portfolio.

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Resource Spending Review

Meeting date: 23 June 2022

Kate Forbes

The resource spending review sets out broad parameters and is a lot more strategic than a budget would be. In that regard, the equality and fairer Scotland budget statement is very similar to the resource spending review in its approach—it uses a strategic lens.

I will keep my comments brief. The resource spending review does not replace the budget, so it does not include anything lower than level 2, which is, comparatively, quite a high level. It is difficult to get into the depths of specific lines that would normally be published in a budget at levels 3 and 4, which constrains how detailed an equality and fairer Scotland budget statement can be.

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Resource Spending Review

Meeting date: 23 June 2022

Kate Forbes

I can pick that up. From memory, the amount to be deployed was more than £200 million, and we chose the quickest way to deploy the full amount. The point that I made about other ways taking from six to nine months is mirrored on the time that it took for the low income payments to be deployed. We worked with COSLA to understand the fastest way to deliver the money. Carers are one group that need additional support and Shona Robison outlined what support was provided to them.

They are not, however, the only group needing support. There are significant groups of pensioners and of households with children and there are groups of people who do not fit into any of those three categories but who also need help and support. At a time like this, there is a huge group of people who need help and support. We will continue trying to deploy funding through the schemes that we already have in place.

You will recall that the announcement that the money was coming was made completely unexpectedly in the middle of February and that we had two or three weeks to not only figure out a way of deploying it quickly, but put it in people’s pockets. Doing that for as many as possible of the people who are struggling required us to move at pace.

There are a number of different schemes that could be identified to create that jigsaw of getting help out. To deploy the full £200 million or more in the round would have taken significant time. That is not to say that the ideas and suggestions about the carers allowance and other things are not still live and pertinent. As Shona Robison said, we absolutely will do more if we can. The fastest way to get that money out in the round without over-complicating the systems was by working with COSLA and responding to its very helpful feedback.