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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 16 December 2025
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Displaying 1213 contributions

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Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Restraint and Seclusion in Schools (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 29 October 2025

Jenny Gilruth

I am sympathetic to the points that you make, convener. I would just observe that the statutory responsibilities currently rest at local authority level; I have some powers at national level, but they are limited. When we come to talk about these issues, I would like to see far more Scottish education data in that regard. I am sympathetic to the points that you have made, but local government will not be, so we need to work within the current parameters.

That said, I think that the bill, although it is very focused on restraint, speaks to a wider issue in relation to how we deliver education. I have made the same point previously. The committee will be aware of the appointment of John Wilson, which local government is not particularly fond of—I am sure that members will have seen some of the feedback in that regard. I think that, post the pandemic, we need to think about how we fund our schools, how they are governed, how we support them and what the accountability mechanisms are at both national and local level. I hope that Mr Wilson’s appointment will reassure the convener on that point.

What I would say to committee members—I have said this in the chamber, too—is this: please sit down and speak to Mr Wilson about the issues that you, as members, have encountered in relation to the delivery of education.

You raise some important points, convener.

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Restraint and Seclusion in Schools (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 29 October 2025

Jenny Gilruth

I am happy to do so.

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Restraint and Seclusion in Schools (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 29 October 2025

Jenny Gilruth

I am about to attend a meeting with the Scottish Funding Council. We engage with it regularly. I think that the reports that the member alluded to are some months old. I saw them at the time and I was concerned by them. Of course, over a number of months, I have discussed with the SFC its position in relation to Dundee university. I will continue to have those discussions—in fact, I will do that just after this evidence session concludes.

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Restraint and Seclusion in Schools (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 29 October 2025

Jenny Gilruth

Mr Rennie, you know that I am always a positive minister when I am in front of this committee, and in engagement—

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Restraint and Seclusion in Schools (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 29 October 2025

Jenny Gilruth

But Deloitte will have to look at the plan when it is agreed. Of course, the plan is not for ministers to sign off; it is for the court to agree to. I think that the court—to go back to Mr Rennie’s line of questioning in that regard—is very important in that respect.

However, I agree with Mr Ross’s observations on the optics of that, and I will continue to pursue those issues with the SFC when I meet with it shortly.

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Restraint and Seclusion in Schools (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 29 October 2025

Jenny Gilruth

Forgive me, I do not have the conditions in front of me.

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Restraint and Seclusion in Schools (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 29 October 2025

Jenny Gilruth

I am curious, Ms Duncan-Glancy—I share your curiosity—but the conditions that are put forward by the SFC will be about providing reassurance in relation to public money but also with regard to what it is feasible for the university to deliver, so we have to be balanced in relation to the conditions. We are not going to ask the university to do things that are unreasonable, but this is about public money, so ministers need reassurance in that regard. I do not have the conditions in front of me, so I cannot give concrete details. Once we have the conditions, I need to engage with the university, and we need to engage through the SFC to that end.

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Restraint and Seclusion in Schools (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 29 October 2025

Jenny Gilruth

The SFC has been holding a number of workshops with the university, and I think that it is fair to say that that has taken longer than we would have expected, so there has been a bit of a challenge in that regard—

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Restraint and Seclusion in Schools (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 29 October 2025

Jenny Gilruth

We are reviewing the current guidance regardless of the bill’s passage—and it is important that I say that. I am mindful of where we are in the parliamentary year.

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Restraint and Seclusion in Schools (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 29 October 2025

Jenny Gilruth

A significant amount of public money is being invested to support the institution. You know that that is extremely unusual, because our universities are independent and autonomous. It is not the case that any other institution is receiving the financial support that Dundee university is receiving at this time, and we need to be mindful of that.

If Mr Rennie thinks that the relationship has improved, that is a good thing—I think that it is positive. Like me, he is a Fife MSP; he wants Dundee university to survive and thrive. It supports a lot of our constituents and a lot of young people in the areas that we represent, so I am absolutely committed to working with the management team to support the university to have the future that will see it thrive.

We have also had really positive engagement with the trade unions, and I am sure that the committee will engage with them and listen to their views, because it is really important that the management team listens to staff and students throughout the process. As the committee has heard in recent months, that has been a challenge.