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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 15 December 2025
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Displaying 1213 contributions

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Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Restraint and Seclusion in Schools (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 29 October 2025

Jenny Gilruth

That creates challenges for us. We think that those things can be resolved, but I am being honest with the committee, and I have set out in correspondence that those are the issues that we need to resolve with Mr Johnson. He has been very open to doing that, so, to respond to Mr Rennie’s point, I do not think that those issues are insurmountable.

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Restraint and Seclusion in Schools (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 29 October 2025

Jenny Gilruth

As I think that I mentioned in response to a previous question, the Government is supportive of the approach. The current guidance requires that parents are notified before the end of the school day, I think, and Mr Johnson’s bill says that it should be done within 24 hours. We are supportive of the approach that has been set out.

We also think that there might be an opportunity to deal with some of this in the guidance that will sit alongside the bill.

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Restraint and Seclusion in Schools (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 29 October 2025

Jenny Gilruth

Can Ms Duncan-Glancy give me an example of what that might look like?

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Restraint and Seclusion in Schools (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 29 October 2025

Jenny Gilruth

Yes, and that was the point that I was making to Mr Greer when I highlighted the evidence from Barnardo’s. I can say from my experience as a teacher who worked in mainstream education that restraint was not a practice that I was trained in, and nor were the vast majority of my colleagues. If anything, the counter was true.

We need to be mindful that most teachers will not view this as something that sits with them, because they believe that, when it comes to education, their first duty is to educate. Therefore, we need to be careful about that. The fact is that the bill—and, indeed, our guidance—applies to all settings. I have been pushing with officials the question whether we can be a bit clearer about that at stage 2, and we can discuss these points with Mr Johnson as the bill progresses.

I would not want to see an increase in the use of restraint practices; indeed, that is not the purpose of the legislation, as I understand it. However, such practices exist in some settings, and they have to be accompanied by staff who are appropriately trained. Most staff in our education services are not going to find themselves in those circumstances, because they work in mainstream education. As a result, we need to be careful about whom we are talking about.

I am sure that the committee will probe those points with Mr Johnson, but I should say that the trade unions put the same points to me last week when they raised concerns about the message that is being sent.

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Restraint and Seclusion in Schools (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 29 October 2025

Jenny Gilruth

I suspect that there probably has been.

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Restraint and Seclusion in Schools (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 29 October 2025

Jenny Gilruth

Train the trainer.

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Restraint and Seclusion in Schools (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 29 October 2025

Jenny Gilruth

Do you mean between the introduction of the bill and now?

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Restraint and Seclusion in Schools (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 29 October 2025

Jenny Gilruth

I have announced the financial support for the university, but I have also set out, in response to the convener, that the SFC is preparing conditions for funding that will support it to do just that. The conditions are important, given that this is public money. I do not think that any MSP at the committee this morning would expect public money to flow out the door without the Government attaching conditions to it, so that advice is coming to me.

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Restraint and Seclusion in Schools (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 29 October 2025

Jenny Gilruth

It is fair to say that I would have hoped that we would have been able to move more quickly. There have been other issues in relation to recent changes in the SFC, which we need to be mindful of, but we are here to support this institution. I think that you know that that is the Government’s position. We will continue to engage with the management team and with the SFC, which I will meet very shortly.

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Restraint and Seclusion in Schools (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 29 October 2025

Jenny Gilruth

It is difficult to comment on individual incidents, but would we be saying that individual incidents of restraint would always trigger support? I am not necessarily sure that they would. The level of support may vary and look different.

In Scottish education, we place a lot of trust in those who are on the front line. We say that they are the decision makers and that they have the professional skills and knowledge to decide on the best support to put in place. I think that Ms Duncan-Glancy pursued a line of questioning with some of the witnesses about what post-incident support would look like. I am happy to consider that as part of our discussions at stage 2. However, what that would look like would vary according to the individual incidents and individuals in the schools.