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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 20 December 2025
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Displaying 1229 contributions

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Education, Children and Young People Committee

Budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 8 January 2025

Jenny Gilruth

I fully expect that, in this new era of co-operation between the Scottish Government and the UK Government, an answer will be forthcoming. I am sure that there is just a slight delay due to the Christmas recess, and I expect that the response will flow to me and my office very soon.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 8 January 2025

Jenny Gilruth

It is important to recognise that there has been a £13.2 million increase. That was a direct ask from the sector.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 8 January 2025

Jenny Gilruth

Of course we discussed free school meals, and you will be aware, convener, of the costings from the Scottish Futures Trust, which put the cost for universal roll-out at more than £250 million in further additionality. We do not have that additionality, but we have been provided—

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 8 January 2025

Jenny Gilruth

I am more than happy to write to you, following this evidence session, to give you further detail about that.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 8 January 2025

Jenny Gilruth

Of course, it is not the responsibility of only the education and skills portfolio to eradicate child poverty. We had a debate in the chamber yesterday, led by the First Minister and the cabinet secretary for social security, with regard to the implications of budget decisions that are taken elsewhere, not least for the work that we have undertaken on the Scottish child payment. We know that, as a result of that investment by the Scottish Government, child poverty levels are lower in Scotland than in other parts of the UK.

From my perspective as education secretary, we must not consider child poverty as being siloed to one portfolio area. I am taking a number of interventions within the education and skills portfolio, which I am sure Mr Dey will speak to in respect of his responsibilities. In relation to school education, I am particularly focused on closing the poverty-related attainment gap. That work is being driven forward by the Scottish attainment challenge funding and, in this budget, by additionality coming from the pupil equity fund, which is starting to show real progress in relation to the gap narrowing.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 8 January 2025

Jenny Gilruth

It will complete the manifesto commitment, as far as I understand it, and the commitment that we made in 2020-21 to invest £60 million for play park renewal. This is the end of it.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 8 January 2025

Jenny Gilruth

The member raises an important point. We also have aspirations around two-year-olds, with which the member will be familiar. It is worth pointing out—I do not know whether the committee has looked at this in detail—that uptake of the provision for two-year-olds varies, so Ms Don-Innes is working closely with local authorities and COSLA to drive uptake for eligible two-year-olds.

The member is right to say that the birth rate is falling and that that will have implications not just for ELC but for schools. We have done some forecasting work in that regard to look at teacher numbers and the future needs of the sector. I am mindful, however, that, in relation to ASN, there is a requirement—particularly post-pandemic, as we have heard—for additionality in the system, so we are thinking about ways in which we can work better with COSLA specifically on workforce matters.

In my opening comments, I made a point about the establishment of the education assurance board, which has been key to the agreement that we have reached with COSLA on teacher numbers and on funding for ASN. In my view, that work with COSLA would sit somewhere in the workforce planning stream, which is about not just the ELC workforce but the teaching workforce and ensuring that we have a workforce that is fit for the future and meets the needs of the sector.

Andrew Watson may want say more on the specifics of ELC. I think that the education assurance board gives us a better opportunity to work hand in glove with COSLA—let us not forget that councils employ most, if not all, of our ELC staff—in order to ensure that we have an education system in ELC and in teaching that meets the needs of our pupils and our younger children.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 8 January 2025

Jenny Gilruth

I will come in briefly on that point, if I may. Mr Adam made an important point, which is why our pathways programme in the senior phase now looks dramatically different from what it might have been when he and I were at secondary school, which is some years ago now.

We are now seeing, certainly in last year’s exam results, record numbers of pupils undertaking vocational and technical qualifications. Our schools are now diversifying their curriculum offer, and colleges are fundamental to that. On the point that Mr Adam made about plumbers and people going into trades, there is now much better partnership working between colleges and schools, which has really improved the number of pathways that are open to our young people.

In addition, there is a real opportunity through education reform to join up work further; I am sure that we will discuss that in more detail as the relevant legislation comes forward.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 8 January 2025

Jenny Gilruth

I am sorry, but the latest ACEL data statistics, which were published on 10 December, show that the gap between the proportion of primary pupils from the most and least deprived areas achieving expected levels in literacy has decreased to the lowest level on record. We will have to agree to disagree in that respect.

We are starting to see progress. Undoubtedly, progress has been affected by the pandemic. The schools data that the member cites shows progress on attainment compared with 2019. It is difficult to make comparisons with the exam results in some of the more recent years because of the different arrangements that were in place during the pandemic, but we are starting to see real progress.

The member also spoke about international league tables. It is worth pointing out that there has been an increase in funding in the budget because we are rejoining two of the international league tables that she mentions, which will provide greater clarity. The December 2023 programme for international student assessment—PISA—statistics, show that the post-pandemic picture in Scotland is similar to the position in other countries. Of course, the OECD described that edition of the PISA results as the Covid edition. We really need to be mindful of the impact that the pandemic has had. However, we are starting to see real progress in terms of that narrowing gap, and that is certainly to be welcomed.

I conclude by noting that the ACEL data is predicated on teacher judgment. We all trust Scotland’s teachers to make those judgments, and that is certainly to be welcomed, too.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 8 January 2025

Jenny Gilruth

On ASN, it is not my understanding that the £29 million funding includes the specialist provision that goes to the individual schools that we fund directly, for example. This is about us providing additionality to local authorities for specialist staff. One of the points that the committee made in its inquiry was that we have seen reductions in relation to the number of specialist staff in our schools, and I accept that. That £29 million is earmarked for that purpose, and we are working with COSLA to identify what those interventions might look like. For example, one of the points that the member has made to me in the chamber concerns the reduction in the number of ASN specialist teachers. I am sympathetic to that point, and I think that some of that £29 million should be used by local authorities to employ more ASN teachers. That is a decision for them, but the funding package gives them the opportunity to do that. They might also want to employ educational psychologists and so on, and they may want to invest in speech and language provision. That is what that £29 million is earmarked for.