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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 31 July 2025
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Displaying 1071 contributions

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Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Education and Skills

Meeting date: 11 June 2025

Jenny Gilruth

You never know.

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Education and Skills

Meeting date: 11 June 2025

Jenny Gilruth

I agree with the sentiment behind Mr Adam’s question. I do not yet know whether there will be an announcement today about lifting the two-child cap, but we know that that would alleviate child poverty at the stroke of a pen. There are many actions that the UK Government could take and I hope that we will hear more about that today. Unless both our Governments work in unison to tackle child poverty, it will not work. We know that the Scottish child payment has been a game changer in ensuring that Scotland’s child poverty levels stay lower than those in other parts of the United Kingdom, but we must see a concerted effort across these islands and must be able to work with the UK Government, so I really hope that we will see more progress from the UK Government to that end today.

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Education and Skills

Meeting date: 11 June 2025

Jenny Gilruth

There are examples from across the brief. I see Mr Dey indicating that he wants to come in, and Mr Logan has just reminded me of the CivTech work that he alluded to earlier in relation to AI and the points that Mr Greer has raised about reducing teacher workload. Those are examples of public-private collaboration to try to drive a different approach to tackling an on-going challenge, as we heard from Mr Greeonr.

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Education and Skills

Meeting date: 11 June 2025

Jenny Gilruth

I am sorry to interrupt, convener, but Mr Dey might wish to come in on that point before we move on.

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Education and Skills

Meeting date: 11 June 2025

Jenny Gilruth

I am happy to engage with Mr Greer on the substantive points in the paper that he submitted some two years ago. More broadly, however, any engagement on teacher workload that has me at the table must also have COSLA there, because we are not going to change things if we do not get local government in the room. I am happy to be here and to give evidence for as many hours as the committee will have me, but if COSLA is not part of those discussions, we will not effect change in our classrooms.

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Education and Skills

Meeting date: 11 June 2025

Jenny Gilruth

As I said in a response to Mr Rennie earlier, as part of the budget agreement, we got an agreement from all local authorities, through COSLA, that they would work back to 2023 levels. I am really pleased that the deal was made. It was made in good faith and it involved a lot of extra public money, including for teacher numbers and additional support needs, so I cannot believe that any local authority in Scotland is taking that additional money from central Government and planning to reduce teacher numbers, having signed up to those conditions and to making meaningful progress on reducing class contact time.

We are engaging with a number of local authorities on the substantive issues, but our understanding is that the budget deal remains absolute and that local authorities will, in good faith, work back to 2023 teacher numbers. If they all did that tomorrow, I could deliver on reducing class contact time in primary schools, because we know through our independent modelling that we would have enough teachers to do that. These things must not be divorced: when we talk about teacher numbers and reducing class contact time, it is really important is that they sit together. Having a sustainable workforce will help to reduce class contact time, which will allow teachers to engage in reform.

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Education and Skills

Meeting date: 11 June 2025

Jenny Gilruth

Is there a specific area of the education brief that you are interested in?

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Education and Skills

Meeting date: 11 June 2025

Jenny Gilruth

On the substantive point, I do not want there to be surplus primary school teachers. I would like them all to be in employment—

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Education and Skills

Meeting date: 11 June 2025

Jenny Gilruth

Mr Rennie is asking me to make a guess about something that will happen in the future. That is not my responsibility—

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Education and Skills

Meeting date: 11 June 2025

Jenny Gilruth

The overall PTR is 13.3, but I do not have the ASN figure in front of me. When it asked ministers to appear today, the committee did not provide us with a detailed breakdown of all the areas that it wished to cover. However, I am more than happy to write to the committee with any of that detail.