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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 19 October 2025
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Displaying 1235 contributions

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Health, Social Care and Sport Committee

Abortion Services (Safe Access Zones) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 12 March 2024

Ivan McKee

Thank you, convener, and good morning to the panel. Thank you for coming along virtually or in person. We are keen to get your perspectives on a number of aspects of the bill.

The first thing that I would like to explore is the way in which the bill focuses on behaviours that are defined as behaviours that may cause “harassment, alarm or distress”, as you are aware. How does that wording relate to the activities that are conducted by groups standing outside abortion provision centres? How does it relate to what you experience outside those centres?

Health, Social Care and Sport Committee

Abortion Services (Safe Access Zones) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 12 March 2024

Ivan McKee

We will come to the wider impact of the bill in terms of human rights issues and the issue of silent prayer later in the meeting.

Health, Social Care and Sport Committee

Abortion Services (Safe Access Zones) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 12 March 2024

Ivan McKee

Good morning, panel. We have had a long session, but it is still morning. Thank you very much for coming in. I would like to explore issues around balancing human rights, which is a very important part of our consideration. The Scottish Human Rights Commission’s submission described the task of balancing ECHR rights in the context of the bill as “challenging”. What do you think about that? Are changes to the bill, or other steps, required to make the bill human rights compliant—or more likely to be human rights compliant? Eilidh Dickson, do you want to lead off on that? Then we will go from there.

Health, Social Care and Sport Committee

Abortion Services (Safe Access Zones) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 12 March 2024

Ivan McKee

Thank you very much. There is a lot there and I would like to come back on some of the points, but I will first give the other witnesses an opportunity to comment.

Health, Social Care and Sport Committee

Abortion Services (Safe Access Zones) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 12 March 2024

Ivan McKee

I want to raise a couple of points for clarification. Bishop Keenan, you referenced research; I assume that the committee is aware of that and that the clerks can provide us with information on it. They are nodding in the affirmative, so that is good.

My second very quick point of clarification—and I am sorry if I missed this—is for Isabel Vaughan-Spruce. When you were arrested, were you carrying no placards, signs or visible information about why you were there? Was your arrest purely on the basis of your silent prayer?

Health, Social Care and Sport Committee

Abortion Services (Safe Access Zones) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 12 March 2024

Ivan McKee

Thank you.

Health, Social Care and Sport Committee

Abortion Services (Safe Access Zones) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 12 March 2024

Ivan McKee

That is an interesting point. I do not recall our having heard being raised the issue of religious messages that are not about abortion specifically. I will reflect on that.

I will drill down a bit further into the issue of silent prayer. Catriona McMillan said that the definition of silent prayer can be broad, in that it can include other activities. To parse that out, let us say that those other activities—for example, using signage, audible prayer or using symbols—will be dealt with in another way, and we will look purely at the issue of silent prayer. The example that we heard about this morning was in that space, where there was apparently no other manifestation to link it to any other activity. Is there a risk that that would be problematic?

Health, Social Care and Sport Committee 5 March 2024

Abortion Services (Safe Access Zones) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 5 March 2024

Ivan McKee

Good morning. I would like to explore a couple of areas. First, have you or your colleagues encountered protests at your workplace? If so, what impact has that had, or can it have, on staff?

Health, Social Care and Sport Committee 5 March 2024

Abortion Services (Safe Access Zones) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 5 March 2024

Ivan McKee

I will follow up a couple of points. Professor Cameron’s reference to counter-demonstrators was interesting with regard to the atmosphere that that creates. A couple of you mentioned that false information is given out at protests and I would like to hear about some examples of that.

Health, Social Care and Sport Committee 5 March 2024

Abortion Services (Safe Access Zones) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 5 March 2024

Ivan McKee

The last point that I want to raise is about the exemptions on trade union activity—picketing. It is clear that we are working our way through the issue and that there are human rights challenges on many sides. I would like to understand your perspective on the rationale behind a potential trade union exemption. Does what is in the bill meet those requirements? The right to trade union activity is a fundamental human right, as is the right to protest, so I would like to understand your perspective on how we unpick that.