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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 11 May 2025
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Displaying 1067 contributions

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Health, Social Care and Sport Committee

Alcohol (Minimum Pricing) (Scotland) Act 2012 (Post-legislative Scrutiny)

Meeting date: 6 February 2024

Ivan McKee

I am assuming that the left-hand side is units of alcohol per person per year, but what do the numbers on the right-hand side relate to?

Health, Social Care and Sport Committee

Alcohol (Minimum Pricing) (Scotland) Act 2012 (Post-legislative Scrutiny)

Meeting date: 6 February 2024

Ivan McKee

Good morning. I just want to dig a bit deeper into the question that Dr Gulhane asked about revenue and where it is going. Maybe “concerned” is too strong a word, but I am perplexed as to why we do not have better data. The estimates of the additional revenue that has been flowing into the system range widely, as Dr Gulhane said, from £30-odd million to £300-odd million per year. I thought that the sector would have a better handle on the numbers.

I absolutely take the point that has been made that the whole point is to reduce consumption, so if you double the price but sell half as much, the revenue does not go up at all. It is quite clearly possible that there has not been any extra revenue, but it could be quite significant, based on those numbers.

As was rightly said, the profit calculation is even more complicated because of the various layers within the supply chain and what they charge each other. Again, common sense says that if you are selling less, the unit price and the cost of producing, distributing and selling will increase.

I am just throwing this out there. Does anybody on the panel have any reliable data that we can talk about and put on the record about money that has additionally been coming through retailers and where it may have ended up?

Health, Social Care and Sport Committee

Alcohol (Minimum Pricing) (Scotland) Act 2012 (Post-legislative Scrutiny)

Meeting date: 6 February 2024

Ivan McKee

Is the IFS number a Scotland number or a UK number? It must be a Scotland number, I suppose.

Health, Social Care and Sport Committee

Alcohol (Minimum Pricing) (Scotland) Act 2012 (Post-legislative Scrutiny)

Meeting date: 6 February 2024

Ivan McKee

We also have a number in our submission of savings to national health service costs, which is just short of £1 million a year. I understand how that has been calculated and it is good to see that saving. Are you aware of, or do you have any data on, the cost of alcohol harm to the overall economy?

Health, Social Care and Sport Committee

Alcohol (Minimum Pricing) (Scotland) Act 2012 (Post-legislative Scrutiny)

Meeting date: 6 February 2024

Ivan McKee

Is that at a UK level or a Scotland level?

Health, Social Care and Sport Committee

Alcohol (Minimum Pricing) (Scotland) Act 2012 (Post-legislative Scrutiny)

Meeting date: 6 February 2024

Ivan McKee

That is helpful, and it puts some of the other numbers that we are talking about today into context. Thanks very much.

The last thing that I want to focus on is the uprating of MUP. What is your perspective on that? What should the mechanism be? Should it be automatic? Should it be based on inflation or affordability? I am going back to the graph that we have just discussed. I am keen to get anyone’s perspective on how we should progress that.

10:00  

Health, Social Care and Sport Committee

Alcohol (Minimum Pricing) (Scotland) Act 2012 (Post-legislative Scrutiny)

Meeting date: 6 February 2024

Ivan McKee

The question that I am asking is about basic economics. If somebody had said to me, when I was running a business, “You have the opportunity to increase prices without increasing costs”, I would have seen that as positive, not negative. I am trying to understand why you see it as an economic challenge rather than an economic opportunity.

Health, Social Care and Sport Committee

Alcohol (Minimum Pricing) (Scotland) Act 2012 (Post-legislative Scrutiny)

Meeting date: 6 February 2024

Ivan McKee

Okay. I will leave it there, but I find it strange, having been in business, that people whose day job it is to know such numbers do not have a perspective on the matter.

I will move on to talk about uprating. The SGF’s submission comments that you did not think there was any reason to increase the 50 per cent rate because wage inflation had not kept pace with price inflation. I am not sure how true that is according to recent wage inflation data, but does it mean that you would be comfortable with an increase that reflected wage inflation rather than price inflation, and that it is the inflation calculation that you are disputing rather than the concept of uprating?

Health, Social Care and Sport Committee

Alcohol (Minimum Pricing) (Scotland) Act 2012 (Post-legislative Scrutiny)

Meeting date: 6 February 2024

Ivan McKee

With respect, I say that that is very different to what we are talking about. That was a tax that raised a revenue. You are right that there is data on that, but there is no data specifically on the additional revenue that has flowed through retailers and up the supply chain directly as a consequence of MUP.

Health, Social Care and Sport Committee

Alcohol (Minimum Pricing) (Scotland) Act 2012 (Post-legislative Scrutiny)

Meeting date: 6 February 2024

Ivan McKee

This is my final question. Again, I am quite perplexed. In effect, this is an opportunity for retailers, convenience stores and grocers to increase prices without increasing costs. I am not clear about why you see the increase as such an economic challenge, unless you can answer the earlier question and unpick who is charging who more, and what data is telling you about reduced revenue and profits, if that is the consequence.

10:45