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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 7 May 2025
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Displaying 1067 contributions

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Health, Social Care and Sport Committee

Abortion Services (Safe Access Zones) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 12 March 2024

Ivan McKee

Thank you very much. There is a lot there and I would like to come back on some of the points, but I will first give the other witnesses an opportunity to comment.

Health, Social Care and Sport Committee

Abortion Services (Safe Access Zones) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 12 March 2024

Ivan McKee

I want to raise a couple of points for clarification. Bishop Keenan, you referenced research; I assume that the committee is aware of that and that the clerks can provide us with information on it. They are nodding in the affirmative, so that is good.

My second very quick point of clarification—and I am sorry if I missed this—is for Isabel Vaughan-Spruce. When you were arrested, were you carrying no placards, signs or visible information about why you were there? Was your arrest purely on the basis of your silent prayer?

Health, Social Care and Sport Committee

Abortion Services (Safe Access Zones) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 12 March 2024

Ivan McKee

Thank you.

Health, Social Care and Sport Committee

Abortion Services (Safe Access Zones) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 12 March 2024

Ivan McKee

That is an interesting point. I do not recall our having heard being raised the issue of religious messages that are not about abortion specifically. I will reflect on that.

I will drill down a bit further into the issue of silent prayer. Catriona McMillan said that the definition of silent prayer can be broad, in that it can include other activities. To parse that out, let us say that those other activities—for example, using signage, audible prayer or using symbols—will be dealt with in another way, and we will look purely at the issue of silent prayer. The example that we heard about this morning was in that space, where there was apparently no other manifestation to link it to any other activity. Is there a risk that that would be problematic?

Health, Social Care and Sport Committee

Abortion Services (Safe Access Zones) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 12 March 2024

Ivan McKee

Thank you for that point about terminology.

It would be good to get your views and the views of others on the panel as to whether the information that is provided in the clinics reflects that balanced view. Are options presented and is there counselling and other support as part of the process? What is your perspective on that issue, which is another point that we have heard about in private sessions?

Health, Social Care and Sport Committee

Abortion Services (Safe Access Zones) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 12 March 2024

Ivan McKee

Great—thank you very much. We can connect with you later about this, but from the committee’s point of view, it would be helpful to get some data sources, as we have had different perspectives on this issue in some of our sessions and it would be good to get our hands on some specific articles.

Health, Social Care and Sport Committee

Abortion Services (Safe Access Zones) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 12 March 2024

Ivan McKee

Thank you very much for that clarification.

Health, Social Care and Sport Committee

Abortion Services (Safe Access Zones) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 12 March 2024

Ivan McKee

Thank you.

Health, Social Care and Sport Committee

Abortion Services (Safe Access Zones) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 12 March 2024

Ivan McKee

I was going to cite that case, plus some others. One of the earlier witnesses cited protests at Dungavel, which relate to the same issue as PE2049 but from the opposite perspective. Faslane protests have been cited. We have protests against arms manufacturers outside places of work in the context of the Israel-Gaza conflict.

Questions have already been aired about the scope for the bill to catch protests against cuts to health services—I have protested outside hospitals, where I have argued against closures—or malpractice. Even ministerial visits have been cited as a legitimate reason for protesting outside healthcare facilities. The UK legislation, if I understand it correctly—some of the witnesses are lawyers and I am not—was in the context of broader legislation on protest.

I ask the witnesses to reflect on some of that to give us more comfort, or not, about the scope for scope creep.

Health, Social Care and Sport Committee 5 March 2024

Abortion Services (Safe Access Zones) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 5 March 2024

Ivan McKee

I have a brief follow-up question on that, just to clarify a point. We have a quote from Police Scotland’s submission in our briefing notes. The submission says:

“The Bill has been reviewed and”

Police Scotland’s

“position remains that existing powers and offences ... are sufficient to address any unlawful behaviour which may arise in the vicinity of a health care premises as a result of such protest.”

How does that square with what you have just said? I want to ensure that we understand exactly what the position is, for the record, if that is okay.