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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 5 May 2025
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Displaying 1067 contributions

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Finance and Public Administration Committee

Scotland’s Commissioner Landscape

Meeting date: 4 June 2024

Ivan McKee

I was not a Government minister at that point in time. My understanding is that the proposal was made in advance of the ministerial control framework being in place to assess it. As I say, the programme for government will come out in September, and it will contain the work that the Government proposes to take forward.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Scotland’s Commissioner Landscape

Meeting date: 4 June 2024

Ivan McKee

In relation to the seven existing commissioners, this goes back to what I said about it not being the Government’s role to decide to close down the offices of commissioners. People would rightly have concerns if the Government stepped into the parliamentary space and said that certain commissioners were no longer required and would be discontinued. Such a review should, rightly, be carried out by the parliamentary authorities.

As I said, there is a process for assessing whether new commissioners are required. The mechanism of including a sunset clause could absolutely be part of the toolkit, if everyone agreed that a commissioner was required and the proposal had passed through the control framework and other assessment processes. A sunset clause might be quite a valuable and helpful mechanism to guard against exactly what you have described.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Scotland’s Commissioner Landscape

Meeting date: 4 June 2024

Ivan McKee

Yes. I have extracts from the MCF in front of me. The criteria to be considered include whether the function or service could be carried out by an existing body such as the Scottish Government, an executive agency, or any other public body that has already been established. A number of other questions are asked, in a similar vein.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Scotland’s Commissioner Landscape

Meeting date: 4 June 2024

Ivan McKee

Yes, but the counterfactual is important. If part of what they see as being their role is to change perceptions and priorities, you could argue that, in an advocacy role, that is what they are trying to deliver. They are not necessarily trying to deliver a service.

However, you could also look at, for example, child poverty, and say that Scotland is clearly in a significantly better place than the rest of the United Kingdom. You could argue that there is evidence that supports that, but whether you attribute that to the Children and Young People’s Commissioner Scotland is a matter for debate and for the relevant committee to dig into in more detail.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Scotland’s Commissioner Landscape

Meeting date: 4 June 2024

Ivan McKee

Again, we might want to take more information directly from those who work in that space in Government, but, clearly, it is hugely important that the Scottish Fiscal Commission is independent of the Government. I am new in post, but I understand that the extent to which its budgeting process is assessed and its direct interaction with the Government over its operational efficiency will absolutely be part of the conversation. That said, it is hugely important that we draw a line between that and its independence in the way in which it carries out its function.

It is an interesting point, though, and I am happy to explore it further and come back with more specifics.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Scotland’s Commissioner Landscape

Meeting date: 4 June 2024

Ivan McKee

That is up to Parliament to decide. I will not tell the convener how to run his committee, but if the committee decided that it wanted to do that, the Government would be supportive of that step.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Scotland’s Commissioner Landscape

Meeting date: 4 June 2024

Ivan McKee

I will be careful what I say. It surprised me, but, as I said at the outset, it is absolutely not Government’s job to tell committees which witnesses they should bring in and what they should ask them.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Scotland’s Commissioner Landscape

Meeting date: 4 June 2024

Ivan McKee

That would primarily come through the committee structure, so that relates to the answer that I have given: Parliament would bring people in and take evidence from them through its committee structure, and it is in everybody’s interest that parliamentary committees are doing that as effectively as possible.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Scotland’s Commissioner Landscape

Meeting date: 4 June 2024

Ivan McKee

No; that is not what I said, either. The Parliament has a scrutiny function to perform, which it carries out through its committees. There is a budget for carrying out that work. One of the SPCB’s roles is to ensure that it is managed, effectively and efficiently, and delivers on what the Parliament has asked it to do. The same case could be made right across the landscape for any of the other public sector bodies that are asked to carry out functions. They have a budget—in many cases, a reducing budget—to deliver similar services. That is what efficient government is about.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Scotland’s Commissioner Landscape

Meeting date: 4 June 2024

Ivan McKee

I am not saying that they do not, or that we are not doing that, or that we are not robustly assessing proposals as they come forward, or that the Parliament should not be looking at and reviewing existing commissioners to see whether they are delivering value for money, or that the Government will not support that work, because we very much look forward to doing so.

10:30