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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 4 May 2025
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Displaying 1067 contributions

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Finance and Public Administration Committee

Scotland’s Commissioner Landscape

Meeting date: 4 June 2024

Ivan McKee

I have already said it four times, but I will say for the fifth time that the ministerial control framework is very robust, as is the Government’s position on the creation of new public bodies in general. That extends to new commissioners. We are very conscious of having too many, and we are taking steps on it. We are robustly taking a position on it. In my new role, that is my absolute intention. We are not ignoring it. I only made the point that there is a bigger landscape out there, which is also in focus and being considered, where there are much larger sums of money to be saved.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Scotland’s Commissioner Landscape

Meeting date: 4 June 2024

Ivan McKee

That is a good question. My experience in the Government up until now has primarily been in the economic space. I know how we work with economic agencies, although that is a very different relationship. I do not know whether the officials have any specific comments on how Government formally engages with and monitors the independent bodies under the Government remit.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Scotland’s Commissioner Landscape

Meeting date: 4 June 2024

Ivan McKee

I think that it was Jackson Carlaw who talked about the various stages of evolution of this landscape, through inquiries and other bodies that were set up. Now, we are in a position in which many interest groups want to have a commissioner.

I heard the evidence from Age Scotland, and I understand why an advocacy group would want to have a commissioner for their specific interest, because it would allow them to raise the profile of, and to advocate more effectively to the Government for, their specific interest group. I understand why it would want to do that.

It is important to look at the broader public sector body landscape to understand what it should look like in order for it to be as cost-effective and efficient as possible, and the Government takes the lead on that. The basic principle is that we want to keep things as simple as possible, and a broad proliferation of public sector bodies that duplicate functions is not the most efficient way of doing that.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Scotland’s Commissioner Landscape

Meeting date: 4 June 2024

Ivan McKee

Again, you would need to talk to advocacy groups about how they see that, but—

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Scotland’s Commissioner Landscape

Meeting date: 4 June 2024

Ivan McKee

Perhaps, but others might see it as a method of amplifying their message, although clearly—

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Scotland’s Commissioner Landscape

Meeting date: 4 June 2024

Ivan McKee

There are two points there. First, the committee has rightly looked at the cost of commissioners, which comes to about £18 million in total. When we consider that against the cost of the broader public sector landscape, it is a very small percentage of the total cost of the 130 or so public bodies that the Government supports across the landscape. Most medium-sized public bodies on their own run up a bigger bill than the £18 million in total that we are talking about for commissioners. In that regard, although it is an issue, it is very far from being the main event in relation to how we make the public sector landscape more efficient. However, I know that that is outside the scope of the committee’s considerations this morning.

We have talked about the second point already, in that a robust evaluation of the cost of new proposals for commissioners is important. That is part of the ministerial control framework and, as new proposals come forward, I will be absolutely focused on understanding whether they make the landscape more efficient and effective, or just add cost.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Scotland’s Commissioner Landscape

Meeting date: 4 June 2024

Ivan McKee

The Parliament has a budget of north of £140 million. I do not know how many staff there are, but it has resources. Now, if the Parliament is in a position where—

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Scotland’s Commissioner Landscape

Meeting date: 4 June 2024

Ivan McKee

As I said, the Parliament has a conversation with the Government every year about how much its budget should be. That is where that conversation would take place if the Parliament feels that it has more responsibilities and needs a higher budget as a consequence. Clearly, that has to take place in the context of broader fiscal situation, but there is absolutely scope for that conversation to take place.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Scotland’s Commissioner Landscape

Meeting date: 4 June 2024

Ivan McKee

I understand that, but the point that I am making is—

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Scotland’s Commissioner Landscape

Meeting date: 4 June 2024

Ivan McKee

It is an on-going process. It is kicking off as part of the budget process, with the initial work on it starting in the summer but, if we do things properly, continuous improvement does not stop.