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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 4 May 2025
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Displaying 1067 contributions

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Finance and Public Administration Committee

Scotland’s Commissioner Landscape

Meeting date: 4 June 2024

Ivan McKee

I am not an expert on the Parliament’s structure. I think that the SPCB was of the view, frankly, that its job was to execute what it was told to execute by Parliament. I can understand that position. The committee, the SPCB and other parliamentary bodies would need to work that out between them, but there are a number of ways in which you could do that.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Scotland’s Commissioner Landscape

Meeting date: 4 June 2024

Ivan McKee

That would be an interesting conversation. As I have said several times, as the minister in charge of public sector reform, ones of my roles, through the ministerial control framework, is to assess robustly proposals for any new commissioners, with a view to understanding whether those are absolutely necessary. Clearly, I do not want to make a commitment, because it relates to part of the current legislative programme, in that a bill is going through Parliament. This is a hypothetical scenario that involves many other elements, of which a commissioner is part. Everybody agrees that we need a commissioner to do that, so that is a specific situation. We would not want to stop a whole legislative programme on the back of waiting for a review. In principle, though, I absolutely adhere to the concepts of having no new public bodies, and of robustly assessing any proposals for them that emerge. I would welcome any review from the committee in that regard.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Scotland’s Commissioner Landscape

Meeting date: 4 June 2024

Ivan McKee

For existing public bodies, we are embarking on a process in order to understand where there is duplication and how effective bodies are on a portfolio-by-portfolio basis. Through our meetings with cabinet secretaries as part of the budget review process, we are trying to understand where there is scope for addressing the complicated public sector landscape. That applies to the 130-odd public sector bodies. It is very important that I repeat that it is for Parliament to decide how it wants to review the seven commissioners, although the Government is very willing and keen to provide support where it can.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Scotland’s Commissioner Landscape

Meeting date: 4 June 2024

Ivan McKee

That is for the Parliament, the SPCB and the committee structure.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Scotland’s Commissioner Landscape

Meeting date: 4 June 2024

Ivan McKee

Distinction about where that responsibility lies is important. If those bodies are there in part to scrutinise the work of the Government, and the Government took responsibility for scrutinising the bodies, we end up in a place—

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Scotland’s Commissioner Landscape

Meeting date: 4 June 2024

Ivan McKee

Are you talking about existing public bodies other than commissioners?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Scotland’s Commissioner Landscape

Meeting date: 4 June 2024

Ivan McKee

All the commissioners are different. I watched your evidence session with commissioners with interest. You made those points, and, from memory, I do not think that any of the witnesses were able to say that they have delivered X, Y and Z.

The counterfactual is always important, but it is very difficult to put a finger on it in those terms. For example, would things have been worse if a commissioner had not been in place?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Scotland’s Commissioner Landscape

Meeting date: 4 June 2024

Ivan McKee

No—nor will it be a morning when I come here and—

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Scotland’s Commissioner Landscape

Meeting date: 4 June 2024

Ivan McKee

Absolutely. It is important that Government is not seen as telling Parliament what to do, but the Government will absolutely be supportive if Parliament decides to do that. That might be through providing information, through processes such as the ministerial control framework. or by giving other insights. We would be very happy to do that. That applies to the seven commissioners that we have at the moment as well as to any potential new ones who are coming down the track.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Scotland’s Commissioner Landscape

Meeting date: 4 June 2024

Ivan McKee

You said “that the Government has asked them to do” but it is the Parliament that has asked them to do it.