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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 4 May 2025
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Displaying 1067 contributions

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Economy and Fair Work Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 5 June 2024

Ivan McKee

The regulations have been worked through over a period of time with the expert committee and various players in the sector that come at the matter from different perspectives in order to ensure that problems have—as I hope—been ironed out. Are there any consequences in particular that you have concerns or thoughts about?

Economy and Fair Work Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 5 June 2024

Ivan McKee

First, I suppose that you could flip that around and ask what is the problem with having that requirement in regulations if it is working and everyone is happy with it.

Secondly, there is an issue in that there is the potential for operation of a two-tier system because not everyone is signed up to the voluntary code. It is worth noting a recent legal case in which the sheriff was clear that the voluntary code does not have a statutory basis.

On the specific example that you have mentioned—colleagues might want to talk to this—the reality is that AIB engages extensively throughout the process. You and I would see only the cases that get to the application stage, but an awful lot more cases are, I expect, headed off at the pass—if I can use that term—during the conversations that AIB has in order to ensure that people are able to work within the process and that they do not have to take cases to the final stage. Do officials want to add anything?

Economy and Fair Work Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 5 June 2024

Ivan McKee

Do you mean for debtors?

Economy and Fair Work Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 5 June 2024

Ivan McKee

I do not have that information in front of me. I assume that it is not secret.

Economy and Fair Work Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 5 June 2024

Ivan McKee

We have taken some advice and have consulted on that. The conclusion was that, at the moment, if people charge fees to provide that work, misselling is being effectively combated by the existing process. There was also a danger that there could be unintended consequences if accountants or other professionals are not able to bring forward cases or point people in the right direction. On balance, and having sounded the matter out with sector stakeholders, we felt that we did not need to put that particular requirement into the regulations.

Economy and Fair Work Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 5 June 2024

Ivan McKee

The voluntary code was a step in the right direction. It brought in the requirements that were felt to be necessary, and which have since proved to be necessary: I think that we would all agree that the voluntary code has been working.

However, as I indicated in my opening remarks, we have a two-tier system and not all providers are operating under the voluntary code. The reason for the change is to ensure that the remaining challenge is dealt with and that the requirements in the voluntary code are brought into legislation so that everyone has to comply with them. Along with other measures that are in the provision, that provides security and comfort to those who are involved in the process.

Economy and Fair Work Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 5 June 2024

Ivan McKee

The regulations should offer more protection. As I have said, putting the voluntary code on a statutory footing removes the two-tier system and the potential for people not to apply the voluntary code. The regulations give clarity on the process so that everybody will know what it is.

Tomorrow, we will deal in Parliament with the Bankruptcy and Diligence (Scotland) Bill. One of the provisions in that bill is on provision of a leaflet with information on the cooling-off period and so on, which is also helpful.

It is clear that the process that has been worked through was to bring in, through the consultation and through the expert panel, people who understand the process. As you have rightly identified, that includes debt advice charities and organisations and others. I hope that they will be able to reflect the perspectives and needs of debtors who will use the process.

Economy and Fair Work Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 5 June 2024

Ivan McKee

I hear what you are saying. I do not want to cast aspersions, and I am not familiar with the providers or with anyone who might want to come into the market, but the other way to look at it is that you would want any providers of protected trust deeds to comply with the voluntary code. Protecting that and putting it in statute will ensure that other players that might want to come into the market are on a level playing field with everyone else. More important is that it would protect the debtors and creditors that are involved in the process. Putting the voluntary code on a statutory footing allows us to do that for any providers that are coming into the market or anyone who is already in it.

Economy and Fair Work Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 5 June 2024

Ivan McKee

I do not, for the reasons that I have identified.

Economy and Fair Work Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 5 June 2024

Ivan McKee

I can understand that observation. To be fair, I note that I was not aware of the committee’s membership. However, if people from the money advice sector or people with other perspectives are on the committee, I am sure that they will make their voices heard. The committee is there to gather views and to reflect and sense check, and to see whether there might be unintended consequences. I am sure that its members would be well able to highlight where they saw concerns, and that those concerns would be taken on board. However, if you require any more information about the committee, I will seek to get it.