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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 6 February 2026
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Displaying 1454 contributions

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Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 11 November 2025

Ivan McKee

The pay policy is in place over three years, which is what we are working to, but you are speaking as though spending money on paying public service workers is not public service; of course it is. Half, or more than half, of the budget goes on pay for the person-centred services that people receive, whether that is nurses, doctors, teachers, or police officers. If we are to retain those numbers and hire and recruit to those services, it is important that we pay people. That is precisely what the public would expect us to do in order to maintain the quality of those services.

Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 11 November 2025

Ivan McKee

The 9 per cent is clear and everyone understands that. The negotiations happen with trade unions; each situation is different depending on the circumstances. We have had discussions and reached those agreements in the context of the three-year policy for current pay deals. The policy is clear.

Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 11 November 2025

Ivan McKee

What is important is where the money is spent and the impact of that money on outcomes and services. If we want to compare sets of numbers, it is important that we compare apples with apples. To do so, we need to compare figures at the same point in the process—either before transfers are made or after they are made. That will give a more accurate reflection of how trends are operating. We are very transparent in setting out the transfers and the need for them. We can agree on that. From our perspective, the split between policy and delivery is important, and we are transparent in articulating that. As I said, to compare apples with apples, we need to compare figures at the same point in the process, rather than at different points in the process, so that we can see what shifts have taken place.

Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 11 November 2025

Ivan McKee

That represents less than 1 per cent of the total budget.

Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 11 November 2025

Ivan McKee

The Scottish Government balances our budget every year. There are rules about how consequentials relating to pensions operate, and those funds are transferred from the UK Government. I am not pretending that the process is easy, but the Scottish Government works on a weekly and daily basis to ensure that, when we get to the end of the year, we balance our budget, as we are required to do.

Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 11 November 2025

Ivan McKee

The question is how much is transferred and how that transfer co-ordinates with other work that is happening in that portfolio. Those are important considerations. As we take forward the public service reform agenda, our approach is to recognise that it is more about outcomes than it is about inputs. We recognise that getting budgets in the right place requires them to move between silos. We are breaking down those silos as we focus on, for example, where corporate costs are deployed, how we deploy digital costs across the piece and how we move towards a preventative budget. I can only see it getting more—rather than less—complicated, and we need to work together to understand how best to deal with that. Putting money into portfolio silos and leaving it there is a great way to focus on inputs, but it does not really help to co-ordinate outcomes in a way that breaks down silos.

Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 11 November 2025

Ivan McKee

I absolutely recognise that we want to be supporting that. As I said, when it comes to economic growth and economic activity, we can pull a number of levers. One of them is the investment that goes into the enterprise agencies, the Scottish National Investment Bank and others. I think that that funding is effective when it comes to delivery. We would, of course, like to spend more but that would be a conversation about the shape of the budget in general. There are competing pressures and it is a question of balance.

10:15  

Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 11 November 2025

Ivan McKee

A lot of the specific underspend is to do with historical issues regarding European structural funds, which were running down.

Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 11 November 2025

Ivan McKee

There are a number of points in response to that. Yes, we work in an environment where there is a fixed budget, which we need to balance—and it is not even a fixed budget, because it moves in-year, depending on consequentials. Even at this point, we do not know the final position for 2025-26, nor will we for a period of time yet. We are always trying to hit a moving target, but the money with which we have to hit it is also moving. We have to balance all that, which creates complexity. If we were in an environment where we knew the multiyear position from the UK Government, we would be able to lay out multiyear spending for various parts of the system.

Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 11 November 2025

Ivan McKee

As I said, we are trying to hit a moving target. There are a number of dimensions to it. There is demand-led stuff, which changes; there is what you have to spend, which also changes, depending on the consequentials—