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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 6 November 2025
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Displaying 1486 contributions

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Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2026-27

Meeting date: 1 October 2025

Ben Macpherson

No—I have not had conversations about that. It is important to note that the Parliament passed the bill at stage 1. I also heard loudly and clearly—and I was pleased to hear it last week during the stage 1 debate—that there is a unified understanding that we need to make progress on the skills agenda, whether that is in industry, across the political parties or across the business community. We know that we need to make progress, but the question is how. The whys are shared but the how is where the disagreement is.

I listened carefully to all the speeches during the stage 1 process of the bill last week and I will reflect on them. However, if the primary legislation is to progress—which the Parliament voted for last week—it is incumbent on members to collectively make it work as efficiently and effectively as possible for the people of Scotland.

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2026-27

Meeting date: 1 October 2025

Ben Macpherson

That is a fair question, convener. I am taking time to reflect on the stage 1 debate, and I hope that you will allow me that. It is important to emphasise that, as I recall was stated earlier this morning, the IT costs are an upper estimate and there has been a reanalysis of the finances. I will engage bilaterally with members on the bill ahead of stage 2, as they wish, and I will proactively reach out to several members of the committee. I can reach out to the whole committee, if that is preferred, but I will certainly engage ahead of stage 2 in relation to further analysis of the figures.

The analysis of the finances that was provided to Parliament ahead of stage 1 was undertaken professionally by actuaries, and it was robust. I will seek further comfort on those figures ahead of stage 2, as well as on the pension arrangements, as I said in my summing up at stage 1.

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2026-27

Meeting date: 1 October 2025

Ben Macpherson

That is completely fair, and I am happy to be engaged in that way.

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2026-27

Meeting date: 1 October 2025

Ben Macpherson

I was not anticipating a further discussion on the bill today, because we had quite a broad one at the stage 1 debate last week, but I am very happy to engage. The question that we have to ask ourselves as a legislature is whether we want to legislate in that area, and I think that there is a requirement that we should.

It is unrepresentative to characterise the intention of the bill as just moving function from one place to another. It is about streamlining and, as the SFC set out this morning, creating greater efficiency so that we have the right arrangement to direct the resources to ensure that we maximise the delivery of the apprenticeships and training programmes. We could have a more optimal system than our current one.

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2026-27

Meeting date: 1 October 2025

Ben Macpherson

Like the member, I welcome the long-term planning in the spending review and the medium-term financial strategy. I would be grateful if John Mason could give me the space to engage with finance ministers on that question and provide the committee with an answer in writing.

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2026-27

Meeting date: 1 October 2025

Ben Macpherson

I will bring in Amanda Callaghan in a moment, but I want to be clear that there is no intention to delay the process—

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2026-27

Meeting date: 1 October 2025

Ben Macpherson

The Scottish Government shares the committee’s determination to see the institution succeed and to be sustainable. I hear the points that have been made, and we will update the Parliament and the committee when we can with further details.

Amanda, do you want to add anything?

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2026-27

Meeting date: 1 October 2025

Ben Macpherson

I heard the discussion in the previous evidence session on the scenario with the principal, and I would want to emphasise—

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2026-27

Meeting date: 1 October 2025

Ben Macpherson

Could you give me some more context to that, please?

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2026-27

Meeting date: 1 October 2025

Ben Macpherson

Because, in the diligence of being a minister, I want to understand the situation around the conversations that I have had here at the committee.