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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Session 6: 13 May 2021 to 8 April 2026
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Displaying 1632 contributions

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Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 15 December 2022

Ben Macpherson

I do not see how that is the case.

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 15 December 2022

Ben Macpherson

On the basis of the past 10 years, the evidence shows that a winter heating payment will provide, on average, more assistance than cold weather payments have, and would have, had they continued. Does Pam Duncan-Glancy welcome that, by creating the new benefit, should the Scottish Government be able to finance a higher payment in a future financial year, the mechanism will be in place to provide more support to her constituents in Glasgow than would have been the case under the cold weather payment system?

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 15 December 2022

Ben Macpherson

The Scottish Government regularly liaises with local authorities on these matters. We are, of course, keen to support local authorities and local members in raising awareness of what support is available. I appreciate the context of Mr Briggs’s constructive suggestion, and I thank him for it.

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 15 December 2022

Ben Macpherson

That is a good question, Mr Balfour. We certainly requested the data from the DWP from early January to give us more time and ensure that we could deliver the benefit as quickly as possible. However, the DWP has relayed to my officials that, because of other demands on it as a result of the cost of living payments, it was able only to guarantee getting the scan to us by the end of January. We are grateful that it has given us a guarantee and that it has committed to giving us a scan by the end of January. We had wished for it to be earlier, but we appreciate the demands on the DWP.

As Angela Keane has articulated, once we have the data scan, the agency will work as hard and as proactively as it can to get payments out to people as quickly as possible and in a safe and a secure way. I have said that I cannot guarantee that everyone will get their payment in February, but I can guarantee that we will seek to get payments to people as quickly as possible and to as many people as possible in February.

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 15 December 2022

Ben Macpherson

Yes. There have, of course, been ministerial changes at the UK level. As far as I can recall, the winter heating payment was an issue that I discussed at points in bilateral meetings with Ms Smith. I did not discuss the data issue with her, because the concerns about not getting the data until late January had not emerged at that point. However, I had a helpful bilateral this week with the new minister, Mr Pursglove, and I am grateful to him and his officials for their confirmation, during that meeting, that we will receive the data scan on 31 January as agreed.

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 15 December 2022

Ben Macpherson

Will the member take an intervention?

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 15 December 2022

Ben Macpherson

Good morning, convener and colleagues. Thank you for the opportunity to discuss with you the draft Winter Heating Assistance (Low Income) (Scotland) Regulations.

The regulations will introduce our 13th Scottish benefit, which is called the winter heating payment. It will support around 400,000 people, replacing the United Kingdom Government’s cold weather payment. In contrast to cold weather payments, which are dependent on certain weather conditions, the winter heating payment will be an annual, reliable £50 benefit delivered by Social Security Scotland, beginning in February.

Our approach will differ from that of the Department for Work and Pensions. To receive a single payment of the DWP’s cold weather payment, someone must live in an area where the average of the mean daily temperature for seven consecutive days is 0°C or below—identified through weather stations, which often do not represent local conditions. By comparison, for the winter heating payment, we have removed the requirement for any period of a specific temperature being reached; instead, we will provide stability to people on low incomes, who are less likely to be able to afford additional heating costs during the winter.

The cost of living crisis has had a significant impact on everyone, but those who are likely to feel the increase in energy prices the most are those with the lowest incomes and the highest need for additional warmth. That includes older people, disabled people and households with young children. Our new winter heating payment targets those groups, ensuring that they receive a reliable contribution towards their winter heating expenses and do not have to hope for periods of cold weather to be sustained for seven days just to trigger a payment, as is the case with cold weather payments.

Between 2015-16 and 2021-22, an average of only £8.3 million was spent on cold weather payments in Scotland, supporting on average around 185,000 people each year. By comparison, we anticipate that our reliable £50 winter heating payment will provide at least £20 million to 400,000 people every year, as I have said.

We are facing challenging times, and we are working within a largely fixed budget in Scotland. An investment of £20 million each year is significantly more than the corresponding level of funding that we are forecast to receive from the UK Government under the block grant adjustment. Again, that reflects our principle that social security is an investment in people and can contribute to tackling poverty. For context, in four of the past 11 years, low-income households received less than £1 million from cold weather payments to help with their heating bills.

As well as the £20 million that we have allocated for the winter heating payment, the Scottish Government is spending hundreds of millions of pounds on devolved social security, including our Scottish child payment, child winter heating assistance, carers allowance and other benefits that are available only for people in Scotland.

My officials and I are grateful to the DWP for its collaboration in delivering the winter heating payment as part of the joint delivery of our devolved social security programme. Our ability to meet our target of beginning payments in February is based on the DWP providing the Scottish Government with the right data at the right time. To ensure that payments can begin in February, it is critical that the DWP maintains its commitment to providing data to Social Security Scotland by 31 January, to allow us to conclude our internal assurance of the 400,000 records. That is really important. We continue to work closely with the DWP to ensure a safe and secure transition.

Lastly, members will be aware that the draft regulations were referred to the Scottish Commission on Social Security in June. We received its report in August. The Scottish Government’s response to its recommendations was laid in the Parliament on 16 November, along with a final draft of the regulations. As always, I am extremely grateful to the Scottish Commission on Social Security for its scrutiny and recommendations.

I welcome the opportunity to be with you today and to take any questions as part of your consideration of these important regulations.

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 15 December 2022

Ben Macpherson

I thank the member for raising those important points. Of course, they are considerations that I and my ministerial colleagues are engaged in. We are seeking, with the mechanisms and limited resources that we have in a largely fixed budget, to provide additional support to people. I appreciate that you recognised that in your question.

We will always seek to consider what more we can do but with mindfulness around how we do it. There are demands on other aspects of the public sector. There is strong demand across the board around what people need during this cost of living crisis. We have provided significant extra support over and above what we have from the UK Government with the block grant adjustment for social security, which is approximately £460 million in this financial year.

The evidence of creating the child winter heating assistance benefit, of seeking to provide the winter heating assistance to more households and of introducing the Scottish child payment and increasing it by 150 per cent shows that the Scottish Government is doing what it can to provide additional support, but we appreciate and absolutely recognise that people face significant challenges at the moment. We are working to identify, where we can, resource to support people in extra ways.

When it comes to addressing fuel poverty, there are wider aspects around people’s dwellings and energy efficiency. I know that there was, quite understandably, a lot of discussion on those matters during the evidence that you took last week. I encourage engagement with my ministerial colleague Mr Harvie. I am sure that he would be interested in coming back and speaking to the committee about what the Government is undertaking to help people with their heating costs and dwellings and to reduce their energy consumption in order to help with those cost pressures as well.

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 15 December 2022

Ben Macpherson

With regard to that last question, how do you envisage that taking place, just so I am clear on what you are asking?

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 27 October 2022

Ben Macpherson

[Inaudible.]—considered. First of all, approximately 6,000 children will have “aged out”—that is the phrase that is used—in the 12 weeks prior to the launch date on 14 November. Approximately 3,000 children from that cohort will have their Scottish child payment claim ended at that point. The other 3,000 children are from households that have a younger child and will, therefore, still be in receipt of the Scottish child payment. Social Security Scotland will send specific SMS text messages and/or emails to that cohort of families to tell them that they need to reapply if their child has aged out. The rationale for that approach is that our user research testing showed that we need to keep our messaging simple and clear. The risk with unclear messaging is that some people who are eligible to receive the Scottish child payment might not apply for it. None of us wants that; we want people who are eligible to apply.

Our testing showed that, if we restart payments automatically for some clients, many others might assume that that applies to them, too, so they would fail to apply and therefore miss out. We decided that a straightforward approach would be for it to apply to everyone. As I mentioned, we will send a specific SMS text message and/or email to tell people that they need to reapply if their child has aged out. We will do that for the particular cohort that I have referenced. I hope that that reassures Mr Balfour.