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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 10 May 2025
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Displaying 1264 contributions

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SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review Committee

SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review

Meeting date: 27 February 2025

Ben Macpherson

That approach has also been demonstrated in your recent work on, for example, Cables Wynd house in Leith in my constituency, which was recently reported on.

Is there anything that you have not had a chance to say and which you want to leave us with, or have you managed to cover everything?

SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review Committee

SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review

Meeting date: 27 February 2025

Ben Macpherson

Gina, do you want to add to that?

SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review Committee

SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review

Meeting date: 27 February 2025

Ben Macpherson

Good morning, and welcome to the fifth meeting in 2025 of the SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review Committee. I have received no apologies.

Today, the committee will take evidence from the Scottish Human Rights Commission and then from the Children and Young People’s Commissioner Scotland.

I welcome to the committee Professor Angela O’Hagan, who is the chair of the Scottish Human Rights Commission, and Jan Savage, who is its executive director. Thank you for being with us.

We move directly to questions. Similar to what I have done when other commissioners have been at the committee in recent weeks, I will start by asking a general question. What do you consider to be the purpose of the Scottish Human Rights Commission, and how does that differ from the role of ministers, MSPs and other bodies? Of course, as MSPs, we have experience and understanding of that, but it will be helpful, for context, if you set that out in the first instance.

SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review Committee

SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review

Meeting date: 27 February 2025

Ben Macpherson

In defence of my colleague Murdo Fraser, when we ask these questions, we are not doing so from the position of making a proposal or giving a set view. We ask them to cover the remit of our committee and to ensure that we obtain the evidence that we need to take the work forward. In that context, your examples are helpful to the committee, Gina. Murdo Fraser’s questions and the response that we have received have been helpful, so thank you for adding that.

11:00  

SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review Committee

SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review

Meeting date: 27 February 2025

Ben Macpherson

Thank you for those helpful insights, examples and responses.

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 26 February 2025

Ben Macpherson

Thank you, cabinet secretary, for agreeing to have this evidence session between stages 1 and 2. It has been really helpful, particularly given the other sessions that we have had at this juncture. This is a very significant bill, and we want to get it right for many decades to come. Before I ask my questions, I remind members that I am registered on the roll of Scottish solicitors.

When the Law Society of Scotland and the Faculty of Advocates gave evidence to us on 4 December, they said that

“the removal of ... not proven ... is a fundamental change”—[Official Report, Criminal Justice Committee, 4 December 2024; c 27.]

but the strong indication seems to be that the not proven verdict will be removed, which is something that I support. Of course, corroboration will be a part of this, although we had the Lord Advocate’s reference last autumn. In the interests of balance, I note that the Law Society and the faculty stated to us that, although the Scottish system has differences compared with other systems across the world, no other common-law jurisdiction works in the way that is being proposed for stage 2, with the change to the jury of 15 and a two-thirds majority. The view of the Law Society of Scotland was that

“every other common-law jurisdiction has 12-person juries and requires unanimity or something very close to it”,—[Official Report, Criminal Justice Committee, 4 December 2024; c 27.]

while the Faculty of Advocates said:

“The view that the faculty endorses and has expressed is that modern thinking is that one should have either unanimity or a majority of 10 out of 12.” —[Official Report, Criminal Justice Committee, 4 December 2024; c 28.]

I am not against our being unique, but it is something that we need to consider collectively when we seek to do something that is quite different from other common-law jurisdictions across the world. I know that you have already commented on that in response to colleagues, but perhaps you have something further that you wish to say. I have one other question to follow, too.

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 26 February 2025

Ben Macpherson

My next question follows on quite nicely from that. In your letter to Parliament of 31 October, you stated that

“the majority of Senators preferred if Scotland changes to a two verdict system”

with

“a two thirds majority requirement for conviction.”

It was interesting that the senators, in their submission on the bill, suggested

“a conviction of at least 10 in favour of such a verdict”.

Was there consideration of 11 or 12? Is that something that we collectively, as a Parliament, can or should probe? The senators’ position was “at least 10”. Is that something that we can discuss further today, or think about in the weeks ahead?

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 26 February 2025

Ben Macpherson

I am conscious that the senators mention the phrase “at least 10” in their written submission. I just wonder whether we require to go back to them on that specific point at this juncture, given the changes that have been proposed between stages 1 and 2 and as we move towards stage 3.

Perhaps I will just leave that hanging. Thank you very much.

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 26 February 2025

Ben Macpherson

I will go back to the discussion about the proposed commissioner. For completeness, the SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review Committee was established following an inquiry into the commissioner landscape by the Finance and Public Administration Committee. I convene that new short-term committee and place on record that if the cabinet secretary and the Government wanted to write to that committee to set out the arguments and evidence for the importance of the commissioner that the bill proposes, that would be helpful and welcome.

Criminal Justice Committee

Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 26 February 2025

Ben Macpherson

For clarity, I was not disputing that.