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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 19 September 2025
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Displaying 1392 contributions

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Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 9 June 2022

Ben Macpherson

As I said, any increase will be from the date of case transfer. In terms of a reduction or a nil award, there is the process of case transfer—which will take 13 to 17 weeks—and then there is the review, which takes time, and then any redetermination or appeal.

There might be circumstances where, under the DWP system, the time before the reduction was applied would have been longer but, in a significant number of circumstances, we anticipate that, in the event of a decrease or a nil award, people will generally be better off within our system, because of short-term assistance and the fact that we will apply the decrease only from the date of final decision rather than date of transfer or change of circumstance, which is the situation with the DWP. Kate Thomson-McDermott can say a bit more about that.

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 9 June 2022

Ben Macpherson

I am not saying that, because that is what the evidence shows happened for people going from DLA to PIP, but that is the evidence from the DWP’s undertaking of its process. We will see how that situation develops in our system. A key point of emphasis that members will appreciate is that we expect to get more decisions right first time. The split of a third, a third and a third comes from initial findings, but 65 per cent of PIP appeals are successful, so there is a different outcome in the end. We have those background situations that help us to consider how this process into the ADP will progress. Certainly, we would look to get decisions right the first time. That is a determination of ours so we are likely to see more success.

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 17 March 2022

Ben Macpherson

I respect Pam Duncan-Glancy highly, but I just want to emphasise again that since 2018 we have been building from scratch an agency that is now highly performing and which employs nearly 2,000 people. We have delivered several benefits; we will start to deliver our 12th on Monday; and seven of those 12 benefits, some of which we are discussing uprating today, are new and available only in Scotland.

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 17 March 2022

Ben Macpherson

That is an important question. I do not want to go into too much detail on the complexities of the internal correspondence within Government, although I will bring in Dominic Mellan if he wishes to add anything that is relevant.

Ministers have, of course, looked collectively at the situation that is before us, with the real pressures that families are encountering and will encounter in the period ahead, and we are determined to provide assistance and help where we can, using the powers and resources that we have. We looked at what we could absorb within the social security budget. The additional amount that we are allocating in order to undertake the uprating for the financial year ahead is £2.7 million. We have absorbed that within the social security budget.

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 17 March 2022

Ben Macpherson

I thank Marie McNair for those important questions. We have had no indication from UK ministers in the DWP or the Treasury of an intention to uprate above the September CPI figure of 3.1 per cent. Of course, we would encourage them to do so. In the regulations that we are laying, we have set out our intention and determination to uprate the six social security benefits that we can fully determine by 6 per cent. Of course, we are increasing the Scottish child payment by 100 per cent.

We are doing what we can, with the powers and resources that we have, to provide assistance. I would encourage the UK Government to also do the right thing and uprate social security benefits across the UK, especially in the areas where there is the current dual process of delivery and introduction by the Scottish Government and case transfer with regard to disability benefits—in particular, the child disability payment and the adult disability payment.

I would encourage the UK Government to increase PIP and the disability living allowance for working-age adults above 3.1 per cent and to look again at universal credit. The case for increasing universal credit and the other benefits that it controls is compelling and I hope that the UK Government does the right thing in the March statement.

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 17 March 2022

Ben Macpherson

I will come to those two points in turn. Of course, the regulations that were based on the September CPI rate followed the position that had been taken in previous years since we introduced the social security benefits—of uprating on that basis. The rising cost of living pressures that we saw before the invasion of Ukraine and have seen since it have, of course, changed the situation for all of us, and in particular for lower-income households and unpaid carers. The Government is committed to doing the right thing and helping people where we can. We therefore looked carefully at what we can do with our powers and our resources, and we have done what is necessary to ensure that we deliver the uprating.

With regard to the point about the social security benefits that are delivered under agency agreements, we cannot create a two-tier system. We will have people in the Scottish system and people in the reserved system until they transfer to the Scottish system, particularly those on disability benefits. I appreciate Pam Duncan-Glancy’s position, but the Government is moving at pace to undertake the delivery of devolved social security and to transfer people into our system in a safe and secure way.

We have had—and, in fact, are still in—a pandemic, and that has made it challenging for us to do all this to our original timetable. As a result, the timetable has had to change not just for the Scottish Government but for the DWP. The fact that Social Security Scotland will launch its 12th benefit on Monday and that seven of those 12 benefits are new is pretty remarkable, as is the fact that we have done all this since 2018. We are building an institution and an organisation that needs to be strong not just in the period ahead but for years to come, and that will rely on having a strong foundation.

In an ideal world, we would, of course, have had everyone in our system quicker than has happened, but these things take time. It is not as if we get a USB stick from DWP and plug it into our computer; the process is much more complicated, and we are undertaking it with diligence and responsibility.

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 17 March 2022

Ben Macpherson

It is not our intention that there will be a particular impact on those who access social security. As I said, we have decided to consider the cost as an absorbed cost and pressure within the social security budget.

I do not know whether Dominic Mellan or Simon Coote wants to add anything that might be helpful and appropriate.

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 17 March 2022

Ben Macpherson

As the member will know and as the finance secretary has emphasised many times to Parliament, there is significant pressure on Scottish budget portfolios in the coming financial year. As I have said, we have, in this instance, identified resource that we can absorb within our budget, and we are continually looking to see where we can use resource efficiently and for the benefit of the people of Scotland. Internally, we have had to work hard to identify this resource and make it available, and we are glad that we have been able to do so, but I am not going to—and I am not able to—specify at this point whether other resource will be available in the course of the financial year. As the member knows, the budget is allocated, and over the subsequent financial year we go through the process of reconciliations and reconsideration of positions. However, I emphasise that the Scottish Government, all ministers, including me and the Cabinet Secretary, and Social Security Scotland consistently look at what resource is available and how it can be utilised to help the people of Scotland, particularly low-income households and unpaid carers on social security.

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 17 March 2022

Ben Macpherson

There is no loss of flexibility in that regard. We set a budget allocation on projections, which involves the Scottish Fiscal Commission. We also project based on the fact that we will be encouraging people to take up benefits. As you know from the Social Security (Scotland) Act 2018 and Scottish Government policy intention and documentation, we are strongly committed to promoting benefit take-up and undertaking what is necessary for that. We have had good discussions at the committee on how we collectively can all play our part in promoting benefit take-up. That becomes even more pertinent in the period ahead.

I call again on all members to work with the Government and the different public bodies involved in that collaborative effort to raise awareness in communities of what support is available, encourage people to apply if they think that they might be eligible and tell their friends and neighbours about it so that we can spread the word about what support exists. Some of the benefits that we will be promoting are ones that we intend to uprate by 6 per cent, as I have set out.

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 17 March 2022

Ben Macpherson

I saw some of the previous session. I am happy to correspond with the committee on those important points that Mr Briggs raises. It is a question not only for social security ministers but for the finance portfolio, so there is a question about how the committee might want to consider those points.