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Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 9 May 2025
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Displaying 1264 contributions

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SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review Committee [Draft]

SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review

Meeting date: 1 May 2025

Ben Macpherson

Although this is anecdotal, I add that my experience as a Scottish minister was always that there was a perception and an understanding that you were independent of Government. Your points around perception and understanding are interesting for our committee’s considerations.

Julie Paterson, do you want to come in on those points?

SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review Committee [Draft]

SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review

Meeting date: 1 May 2025

Ben Macpherson

I understand.

Is there anything that any of you wants to relay or to emphasise to us that you have not had the chance to talk about in this morning’s evidence? I see that no one has anything to add.

I thank you for your time and for the insights that you have shared with us today. We are grateful for them.

10:56 Meeting continued in private until 11:15.  

SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review Committee [Draft]

SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review

Meeting date: 1 May 2025

Ben Macpherson

That is interesting—you use and are part of the shared services programme, but you want to preserve the integrity of your independence. Those are the questions that we are interested in. Thank you.

SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review Committee [Draft]

SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review

Meeting date: 1 May 2025

Ben Macpherson

Good morning, and welcome to the 10th meeting in 2025 of the SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review Committee. I have received no apologies for today’s meeting. Ash Regan MSP joins us online.

The committee will take evidence from three public bodies that are funded by the Scottish Government but are seen to be independent. I am pleased and grateful to welcome to the committee: Julie Paterson, chief executive officer, Mental Welfare Commission for Scotland; John Ireland, chief executive, Scottish Fiscal Commission; and Craig Naylor, chief inspector, His Majesty’s Inspectorate of Constabulary in Scotland.

We move directly to questions. The first question is from me, and is one that you are perhaps anticipating. As part of the review that Parliament has asked us to undertake, we are keen to understand as far as possible how supported bodies that are funded by the SPCB fit into the wider public body landscape. We have heard evidence that SPCB-supported bodies are often created when independence from Government is required for the body to fulfil its functions. As you are funded by the Scottish Government, I am interested in your thoughts on whether you consider that your organisations are able to act as independent bodies. I appreciate that the answer to that is likely to be yes, but I would be keen to understand why. Further, would you be able to function more efficiently, effectively or independently if you were an SPCB-supported body? In effect, I am asking: does who funds you matter?

I do not know who wants to go first—perhaps John Ireland?

SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review Committee [Draft]

SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review

Meeting date: 1 May 2025

Ben Macpherson

Unless colleagues have any more questions, I will ask a few last questions, the first of which is on shared services. Craig Naylor, you said that you are based in St Andrew’s house, so you use the Scottish Government estate. Julie Paterson and John Ireland, do you want to say where your physical offices are situated and whether that is in the Scottish Government estate?

Craig, do you pay the Government for using St Andrew’s house?

Can you all tell us more about how you share services, such as human resources and IT? SPCB-funded organisations have their own HR departments.

We are thinking about all of these issues, as you will appreciate.

SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review Committee [Draft]

SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review

Meeting date: 1 May 2025

Ben Macpherson

We will get to questions about function and similar points later in today’s evidence session. Thank you, both, for that helpful and insightful information. Craig Naylor, please come in on all the points that have been raised—and thanks for waiting patiently.

SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review Committee [Draft]

SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review

Meeting date: 1 May 2025

Ben Macpherson

Who would like to answer that first?

SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review Committee [Draft]

SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review

Meeting date: 1 May 2025

Ben Macpherson

John Ireland, a few moments ago, you wanted to come in but did not manage to. Do you want to come in now?

SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review Committee [Draft]

SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review

Meeting date: 1 May 2025

Ben Macpherson

That was very helpful.

Murdo Fraser wants to ask a supplementary question.

SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review Committee [Draft]

SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review

Meeting date: 1 May 2025

Ben Macpherson

It is very helpful and interesting. The area of justice is quite interesting in itself, with regard to the wider question of SPCB-funded bodies and Scottish Government-funded bodies. For example, your organisation and the Police Investigations and Review Commissioner are funded by the Scottish Government because you are part of the accountability arrangements for the justice system, whereas the Scottish Public Services Ombudsman is funded by the Parliament and holds other public services to account. Such are the questions that we have been wrestling with over the past months, and your insights are helpful to us as we continue to do that.

I have one further question, and then I will pass to Murdo Fraser. As you might be aware, the Scottish Government has nine classifications of public bodies, such as non-ministerial offices and health bodies. Do you feel that your body has been categorised appropriately and that your framework agreement sets out the right relationships with the Scottish Government and the Parliament? As far as you are aware, has your classification and, therefore, your relationship with the Government, ever been reviewed or reconsidered? If you do not have huge amounts to say on that, please feel free to be quite succinct, but it would be interesting to get your thoughts on those two points.