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The point that you just made about the longer-term view was very interesting. Would you be able to provide the committee with that analysis of the investments over that period?

Before we close, I would like to ask one more question. The issues surrounding Alexander Dennis are very topical. Just before the summer, we took evidence from trade unions and the business itself, and one of the bits of information that we looked at in our briefing paper was the level of support that Scottish Enterprise had provided.

I have two questions about that. First, we understand that Scottish Enterprise made available a total of £30.5 million to Alexander Dennis over a 10-year period, but your website refers to a figure of £17.6 million, so I would be interested if you could clarify what the balance is made up of.

More importantly, in 2023, according to your website, you provided £4.8 million to Alexander Dennis. That is some 5 per cent of the £100 million, roughly, that goes out the door. We also know that the vast bulk of the Scottish zero-emission bus challenge fund money ended up being used to buy buses from overseas. Given that you have spent that money, is there a lesson to be learned there about conditionality and taking a joined-up approach so that we ensure that we build indigenous industries, especially in critical areas. I would describe buses as critical infrastructure.

Could you clarify where the balance of £12.9 million, which is the difference between the £30.5 million and the £17.6 million, came from? Critically, are there lessons to be learned in relation to the funding that you have provided in recent years? Could a more strategic and joined-up approach be taken?

Thank you very much for responding to an extensive range of questions over a prolonged period of time. I thank both our witnesses for their contributions this morning.

We will have a brief suspension to allow for a changeover of witnesses.

What proportion of that £70-something million goes in direct awards in terms of grants, loans and investment?

I understand that point—it is direct support—but the things that you are measuring are indirect and broader, as opposed to direct outcomes from expenditure. That is the slight differentiation that I am making.

Do you set an explicit target for those metrics?

That information would be very useful. Although case studies would be useful, summary information on the totality of that funding and the high-level criteria that are applied would be most useful. My understanding is that the criteria are applied to particular sectors and to companies of particular ages. Could you clarify the criteria that are applied to the productivity funding and the other grant streams?

I accept that. I do not think that anyone is arguing with the fact that the company needed the investment and that you were absolutely right to provide it. The issue is the mismatch. You put in £4.8 million in 2023, and £2 million was provided in the previous four years, but Alexander Dennis did not win a substantial proportion of the £41.7 million that was available under ScotZEB. There is a question to be asked about whether you were investing in the right things or whether the Scottish Government should have applied more conditionality to make sure that your investment made good for the Scottish economy.

My final comment—to go back to my original line of questioning—is that South of Scotland Enterprise’s annual report provides, on pages 15 and 16, a breakdown of its expenditure and, in particular, a breakdown of how its grants were awarded by sector and according to the pillars. That is useful to have. I totally accept the macro position, but if you are wondering what I was trying to get at, that is the point that I was trying to make.

Welcome back. It is a great pleasure to welcome our second panel of the morning. We are joined by representatives of both Highlands and Islands Enterprise and South of Scotland Enterprise. From Highlands and Islands Enterprise, we have Stuart Black, who is the chief executive, along with Sandra Dunbar, who is the director of corporate services. From South of Scotland Enterprise, we have Jane Morrison-Ross, who is the chief executive, along with Anthony Daye, who is the director of investment, business and entrepreneurship.

I will begin along similar lines to the questions I put to Scottish Enterprise. I am trying to understand the impact and value for money that we get from our enterprise agencies.

It was very useful to get a very clear breakdown of expenditure and what proportion of grants are awarded to business by sector and by key programme in the South of Scotland Enterprise annual report, on pages 15 and 16. My calculation is that your operating expenditure is about 40 per cent of your total outgoings. How do you go about measuring the impacts that you outline and ensuring that you accurately measure that there is a direct linkage between your expenditure and the outcomes? Obviously, as with all the enterprise agencies, the amount of value that you are citing is greater than the expenditure that you are putting in.